by digderidoo 280 Replies latest watchtower bible
Spike Tassel.
Are you a member of Jehovah's Witnesses how many years?
People who are in this forum were Jehovah's Witnesses for dozens of years.
I think that you cannot persuade the people here even if you repeat strange/shallow explanation.
I think that you have to have the respect to people who have dozens of years of experience.
Though they are not Jehovah's Witnesses now.
How can I persuade someone against their will?! I just try to share my viewpoint and try to understand what the others are saying. It is often difficult, on both counts.
I said,
Are you a member of Jehovah's Witnesses how many years?
Since I feel your explanation is shallow, I am asking you like this.
I think that it is better not to offend others/me.
possible
If I answer 20 years, maybe it is not enough, or maybe it is too many. Jehovah knows my heart about every aspect to your question, even more than I can say to you. He can satisfy every important question, when the time is right. Focus on Jehovah and Jesus (John 17:3), not on me, please. Each of us getting everlasting life is more important than whether we are satisfied with the answers the other can give. Peace, possible.
Spike Tassel.
Why is your answer "If"?
I feel that you are NOT sincere/honest.
Probably, you do not have the qualification for defending JW.
Are you always doing such an answer that is not sincere in field service?
possible
I believe that god Jesus and the holy spirit are all of one accord.
Hebrews 1:8
| "But to the Son He says: 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever'" |
the Trinitarian translation results in the absurd implication of God addressing another as God, and not only so, God then also refers to the anointing of this God's God. The facts will also show the passage is intended to say that Jesus has ascended to the throne of God and is therefore above all the angels.
Polytheism trinity style if they keep this as God calling Jesus God.
Hebrews 1:8 is a quotation of Psalm 45:6. The above translation of Hebrews 1:8 is an example of extreme Trinitarian translation bias. Here they outrageously try to claim that God is addressing Jesus as "God." Their translation is not the most natural reading of the original Greek text and it crudely violates the context in order to promote Trinitarian doctrine.
For example, the RSV, a Trinitarian version, translates the original passage quoted here as, " Your divine throne endures for ever and ever." (Psalm 45:6).
The main intention of this passage is to indicate and describe the authority of Jesus that resulted due to his resurrection glory.
but to cap it all look to the original psaln 45 if it says it like trinitarians prefer
Your arrows are in the heart of the King's enemies. Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you With the oil of joy above your fellows.
it is said to David so is Jehovah declaring David to be God as well as Jesus? so we have God, Jesus and David as the new trinity?
Reniaa
above are a few quotes from a trinity on trial a good site for people.
LOL, Ren is still trying to argue against modalism. Get a clue Ren, nobody is arguing for modalism.
This is how these Psalm 45 verses 1-7 are structured:
Ø Verses 1-5 refer to the king of Israel.
Ø Verse 6 and half of verse 7 refer to attributes of God. This is directed TO God. “{45:6} Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom [is] a right sceptre. {45:7} Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness:”
Ø The key word in this discussion, in verse 7, is THEREFORE. Therefore God is annointing the king of Israel with oil. “Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.”Why?
Ø Because He loves righteousness.
Ren, thank you for providing another example of where a reference to the Son in the NT clearly applies to the Father in the OT.
JW’s are correct in one thing: they can’t understand the scriptures on their own.
Here is a good link on the matter: Here
Here are more essays on the topic: Here
thanks mad dawg. Very true- as many times as you explain to a JW what the trinity is they will revert to refuting modalism.
All they really end up doing is showing the perfect untiy of the Father and Son...the operation of the trinity.
I think that, when the formualtion of the Trinity doctrine was coming to be, it was ebecause of the issue of referenincing OT passages with NT passages.
The people of that time, typiclaly "reformed Jews" and "reformed pagans", were struggling with the concept of a Divine Jesus and he he relates to His Father and how that effected the passages in the OT or better the Old Convenant.
EX: In the Old convenant Gos is the only one that forgives sins, that reedems, that Judges, but in the New Covenant that role ( amongst many others) is applied to Jesus.
Does that make Jesus God? does it make him THE God ?
The Trinity was a way on interpreting that relationship between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, for it seemed that in this New Convenant, when COMPARED to the Old, there was some "intermixing, and as we can imagine for the Jews of that time, some confusion.
Jesus being God "solved" that problem, even if it was not entirely scriptural.
The Fact is, with the New Covenant Jesus became Saviour, Redeemer and Judge, because his Father willed it so, because that is how it had always been, since the beginning. Jesus didn't had tp be God, he is all the God is for he is the full manifestation of God.
