Thanks for the reply Jeff. Will try and respond to you thoughts and questions...
Another familiar and used argument is that holy spirit is needed to understand. What is missing is any discernable criteria by "god" to interpret scripture.
And it is precisely that god is so unclear so as to 1. Spell things out in the first place and 2. Indiscriminatlely give holy spirit to one, but not the other, that makes the quoting of scriptures as the end all/be all so unbalanced and unnecesarry.
I understand point 1. The bible is not totally spelled out, I agree. Also, it appears contradictory but it isn't! The contradiction disappears with the Spirit's teaching. I know you are not going to take too well but I tell you that from practice. I had a load of problems with the bible about four years ago when I started reading, especially the OT-all the apparent condemnation, judgement and harshness etc. Now I have very few biblical issues. That is first and foremost because of revelation of the Holy Spirit through the scriptures.
OK regarding the bible, it is an essential tool, but we are to live by the Spirit. More on how the two interact later.
Point 2. I believe that God's Spirit is poured out on all flesh as Joel, Acts 2 says. In practice, He speaks to all of us. If we listen and have faith is Jesus we are born again. Then He comes to live inside of us. We still have our free will. We can choose to listen or not but He is constantly around to give insight, council, wisdom, hope, love etc.
I will take each scripture:
1 Corinthians 2:14 (New International Version)
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
So scriptures that promote stoning your kids, allowing for the raping and pillaging of women, genocide, etc as found in the OT require holy spirit to understand and accept?
The letter kills (the OT law) but the Spirit gives life. We are not under the law but to live by the Spirit.
NT concepts of "sin" being redeemed by a man/god (semantics aside) who was conceived and born without the need of sexual intercourse, was executed, then resurrected require holy spirit to understand and accept? Or does it require a willingness to go to a certain point, determined not to ask the next critical question.
No, questions are good to a point but you need to put them aside sometimes and suspend your disbelief, at least for a while. I am sure you can relate to that as I remember that being necessary on several occasions when learning sciences and stuff at school.
Also, children, they cannot understand everything so neither do I attempt to explain everything to mine and neither should I, some things are for adults only.
The bible speaks for itself. Holy Spirit isn't needed to understand, it is a questioning mind, a mind that theists give credit to god for. Why discredit your god by not using your mind? Or perhaps, will it make you afraid of what you will find? Perhaps you are worshipping the wrong god?
To be honest this is WT teaching that only "resoning the scriptures" is necessary with our minds. They want to keep us from the Holy Spirit who is the only one who can bring revelation to our spirit.
For sure, God gave us our minds and wants us all to use them to the fullest. However, when one is born again the Holy Spirit bring the "mind of Christ" who "knows all things". He goes way beyond our limited fleshly brains, hence faith is required once again.
John 14:26 (New International Version)
26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
One or the other. Either scripture or individual revelation. Not both. This contradicts, and will always create more confusion than solving issues and problems. This approach also allows a great deal of convenient ambiguity regarding the protecting of cherished beliefs, regardless of what facts are generally brought to light.
You need the Holy Spirit to understand spiritual things. The bible is a spiritual book first and foremost, not a history book, a book of rules or good ideas etc but a book about God who is Spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:10 (New International Version)
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
If this is gods approach, he isn't worthy of worship. Who am I to question? One who supposedly was made in the image of god. I am not any less important as an autonomous creation. I will ask, I will inquire, and where no good answer lies, I will call it out.
Trust me, so much angst has been caused by this concept that holy spirit is the key. It masks many untenable positions that the bible stakes out as from god.
God could just tell us directly. Even in the bible, he is curiously ambiguous at times, which to me, is evidence that man is behind the bible, not "god".
Thus, as a man, there is no reason to think one mans thoughts is superior or inferior to mine.
I empathise with you. I fought God and His Spirit for 20 years! I think He is telling you directly but not in the way your mind expects or wants to accept.
John 16:13 (New International Version)
13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
This is too easy to give a free pass to. Why you and not others? All this is designed to do is keep people in a superstitious stupor, dependent on the religious leaders and "professional explainers" to hide behind.
Once again I feel what you are saying. However, the Spirit is talking to you. Your mind can get in the way!
This might confuse you at the moment because I guess you have no idea about the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues but it illustrates the point
1 Corinthians 14:14-15 (New International Version)
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.
Basically praying "in the Spirit" i.e. in tongues, the Holy Sprit intercedes from within the believer and the mind is bypassed and its limitations. This can be an affront to the mind, even in some believers!
2 Corinthians 3:6 (New International Version)
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Which is it? Scripture or personal revelation?
The letter spoke of here is the Law, the OT dos and dont's. We are call to live by the Spirit in the new covenant through Jesus. The law brings death, no-one is saved through it, is just points out what sin is. The rebirth of the Spirit brings life.
To me, all of these scriptures you use as answers raise more questions then you might like.
Not at all :) Keep asking and keep reading.
If it is revelation of a personal nature, caused by holy spirit, then the bible is unnecesarry. Quoting it is moot. My revelation, that I can claim by holy spirit, is superior.
OK, the bible is written by the Holy Spirit so what He has to say directly or via the bible agrees. Sorry, time for another scripture to explain!
Hebrews 4:12 (New International Version)
12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
So why quote it in the first place?
Hopefully you are getting a hint of the answer that question now?
All the best,
Stephen
