According to wt jesus is just A god.
S
Would a definite article prove that Jesus is God?
by solafide 164 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Chalam
chalam why is the holy spirit missing in the scripture you quote as proof?
Well everywhere where Jesus is mentioned, or the Father, there the Holy Spirit is too
Romans 8:9 (New International Version)
9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
It is just like anyone, their spirit is one with their body and soul, unless of course they are dead!
J ames 2:26 (New International Version)
26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (New International Version)
23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 4:12 (New International Version)
12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
All the best,
Stephen
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Chalam
Hello solafide,
Well I am a Christian but there are many who call themselves that!
Can I ask is Jesus Lord of your life? Romans 10:9 1 Corinthians 12:3
Also, are you born again? John 3:3 1 Peter 1:3 2 Corinthians 5:17 Galatians 6:15
As to the points you have raised about Jesus being "a god" I cannot agree. For me, Jesus is "God", not "a god". I do not need to know every detail of koine greek to arrive at that conclusion, only read the rest of the bible!
For instance, why is there only one God but the Hebrew describes God with a plural word (elohiym)?
Why does the Father use exactly the same name as Jesus, see here for example? Revelation 1:8 Revelation 21:6 Revelation 22:13
How can Jesus be at the centre (mesos) of the throne of God if the Father is sitting on it?! Revelation 5:6 Revelation 7:17
All the best,
Stephen
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designs
Its all symbiosis. Father and Son just like John 5 says.
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solafide
Earnest,
you certainly wouldn't be an orthodox Christian. I'm not saying that as a pejorative either. But that's what I'm talking about when I say "Christian". If all JW's are Christians, then all Christians are JW's. That wouldn't make any sense and JW's wouldn't need to witness to "Christians" in that case.
" The question I intended to raise was whether the definite article in the expression "the God" (ho theos) is specifically used to refer to God the Father."
This depends on the context, such as in 2 Cor 4:4 which is referring to Satan.
And with John 17:3, by saying that it comports with Trinitarian theology is shorthand for saying it comports with Scripture as a whole. I aim to have the whole of Scripture teach me, not just use singule verses to come to conclusions when there are many verses to look at in regard to this issue.
Further, if Jesus is referred to as "the God" with definite articles, then it necessarily implies that He is the one true God as well. Thus, that is why Jesus can pray the way He does in John 17:3, and in fact we would expect Him to pray this way if that is the case!
Lastly, Jude 1:4 says that Jesus Christ is our only Lord. Yet Romans 10:11-13 show that we must call on the Lord's name to be saved (context referring to Christ), while the OT passage is in reference to Yahweh! So by your own logic, Yahweh can't be Lord, only Jesus can be, thus the Scripture contradicts itself. Yet, Trinitatian theology perfectly satisfies why Jesus is Lord in Rom 10:11-13 when Yahweh is also the Lord in this OT passage.
Therefore, Jesus is Yahweh. The aposltes demonstrate this with there interpretations of the OT, and because Jesus is refered to as "the God". I am not having anyone tell me this but Scripture.
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drew sagan
Because the Bible is the combination of various texts by different authors with various audiences, is should be assumed that there is no unified doctrine of Christs divinity or humanity contained within. "Prooftexting" to support the views of one specific theory inadvertenly causes one to reject texts that do not support your argument.It's all subjective.
The orthodox trinity may not "be in the Bible", but neither are most of the ideas floating around in Watchtower land. What really happens is that people juxtipose their own life experiences and perspectives on top of a text.
I've found that it is best to simply throw out the doctrine of sola scriptura. It makes the Bible eaiser to understand, and you end up more content. -
solafide
Chalam,
"As to the points you have raised about Jesus being "a God" I cannot agree. For me, Jesus is God, not "a god". I do not need to know every detail of koine greek to arrive at that conclusion, only read the rest of the bible!"
Yes Jesus in my Lord, and I am born again.
I think you have not read what I wrote. I said specifically that the JEWS said He was "a god"! Look at the Greek. There is no definite article when they say "you, a mere man, are making yourself out to be (a) god." It's in John 5 when they call Him "the God". If you have been following me on this thread, I have been arguing for the Deity of Christ this whole time. As a brother in Christ, please read carefully! I don't think John 10 which references Jesus as "a god" is the best argument for the Deity of Christ. The Jews there were basically mad that Jesus had authority to be more then human and do miracles. Jesus's arguemnt was that it was the same for OT judges, thus they have no reason to complain, and that He has every right because He and the Father are one.
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Chalam
Therefore, Jesus is Yahweh. The aposltes demonstrate this with there interpretations of the OT, and because Jesus is refered to as "the God". I am not having anyone tell me this but Scripture.
I agree! Thus I am happy with "LORD" in the OT or "Yahweh". I am less enamored with the use of "Jehovah" since running into "jehovah's witnesses".
That said I am actually more concerned with what people have to say about Jesus.
All the best,
Stephen
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Chalam
Hi solafide,
I think we are debating the word "a" which can be a red herring due to koine greek when the big issue is concerning if Jesus is "god" or "God". Talk to any JW and you will see.
The question is not, throw every verse into the equation and what is the result? drew sagan will tell you that gives various results, depending who is doing the calculating.
No, the question is, who do you believe Jesus to be via the revelation of the Holy Spirit?
All the best,
Stephen
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Earnest
Earnest : The question I intended to raise was whether the definite article in the expression "the God" (ho theos) is specifically used to refer to God the Father.
solafide : This depends on the context, such as in 2 Cor 4:4 which is referring to Satan.
If it depends on the context whether "the God" refers to God the Father or Satan then that rather answers the question whether the use of the definite article proves that Jesus is God, doesn't it.
Your understanding that Jesus is Yahweh is one that has been discussed before but I wonder if you would just confirm, then, whether you understand Yahweh to always refer to the Godhead as a whole (as understood by orthodox Christians) or whether it is sometimes limited to God the Father (e.g Psalm 110).