Would a definite article prove that Jesus is God? (page 7)

designs

S Not quite, their theology allows for Jesus to be a divine being, although distinct from God. His existence, in their view, is that he was divine prior to his human existence and he returned to the divine state/form post resurrection. He is viewed as having achieved a greater stature in his resurrected state. They will appeal to 1Cor.15:27,28 on that point.

Satanus

designs

Yes, but again, the wt enterprets his divinity not as intrinsic nature, but as derived from his position and/or function. By wt mechanistic reasoning, any angel or human could be promoted to godhood.

S

designs

S

No, they do believe his divine state/nature is and was intrinsic, they just believe when he was a human he was not a god/man or angel/man.

PSacramento

We do have to look at the plainly stated facts:

Jesus never refered to himself as God, only the Son of God, or the son of man.

While it is clear by scripture that ALL the God is, Jesus IS and that God and Jesus are ONE, in perfect union, it is NOT "clear" that God and Jesus are one in the same God, that is interpretive.

While the Trinity is NOT about 3 gods in ONE, but About One God ( God) Manifectes equaliy in 3 ( God, Jesus and the HS), this view is nowhere stated plainly and as such is an interpretation.

The Trinity is not a basis for salvation, only faith in Jesus christ as the SON of God is ( for a Christian).

The New covenant states plainly that to rold of God in the OT has been assumed/passed on/inherited, by his Son Jesus, Jesus is our salvation and it si through Jesus and HIS NAME, that we are saved.

We have what is plainly stated and we have what is interpreted, if we are to take what is NOT stated plainly as a basis for salvation (Which we are NOT doing) we must ask ourselves:

The writers had many a time and opportunity to state that Jesus Christ is God (YHWH) and they did not, outside what can be interpreted as such, and since they didn't, why didn't they?

Deputy Dog

S

They believe Jesus lied

Satanus

DD

Lol

design

'they do believe his divine state/nature is and was intrinsic'

Can you provide quotes to prove that the wt believes that? Also, jesus died, ceased to exist for 3 days, life force nonexistent. How can a being w intrinsic divine state/nature die? This doesn't speak very well for the wt god. It suggests that it is possible that he also could die.

S

jonathan dough

You need more than that to prove Jesus was, and is, God. The proof is overwhelming. Here is an article that explains it further. You want to end up with John 1:1, don't begin there. JWs say it depends on the context ultimately. This article lists most of the proof texts on the issue.

http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#20

JD II

jonathan dough

PSacramento, you are absolutely wrong about all that you wrote, quoted below. You need to take a critical look at what the Trinity really teaches. You are very misinformed. Go here for a clear view of Trinity doctrine as you are misleading many people.

http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#20

You wrote:

Jesus never refered to himself as God, only the Son of God, or the son of man.

While it is clear by scripture that ALL the God is, Jesus IS and that God and Jesus are ONE, in perfect union, it is NOT "clear" that God and Jesus are one in the same God, that is interpretive.

While the Trinity is NOT about 3 gods in ONE, but About One God ( God) Manifectes equaliy in 3 ( God, Jesus and the HS), this view is nowhere stated plainly and as such is an interpretation.

The Trinity is not a basis for salvation, only faith in Jesus christ as the SON of God is ( for a Christian).

The New covenant states plainly that to rold of God in the OT has been assumed/passed on/inherited, by his Son Jesus, Jesus is our salvation and it si through Jesus and HIS NAME, that we are saved.

We have what is plainly stated and we have what is interpreted, if we are to take what is NOT stated plainly as a basis for salvation (Which we are NOT doing) we must ask ourselves:

The writers had many a time and opportunity to state that Jesus Christ is God (YHWH) and they did not, outside what can be interpreted as such, and since they didn't, why didn't they?

JD II

glenster

I'd want to see what both sides say for all the verses and see who has the
better case for what was originally intended, which is the mainstream view.
What I have on that is on pp.6b to 10 at the next link.
http://www.freewebs.com/glenster1/gtjbrooklynindex.htm

The part on John 1:1 is most of the way down p.8.

PSacramento

Johnathan,

I was merely expressing MY opinion on the trinity and how I view it and can accept it, as an interpretation of the relationship between God, Jesus and the HS.

If, as per your link, you view that info as stating that Jesus is YHWH, then that is fine and it is your opinion, I don't see it that way.

I certainly don't want to mislead anyone and if people want to beleive that Jesus is YHWH they have that right.

I see the Trinity doctrine as something going beyong scripture, but that is my view.

I am not a JW but I can't call myself a Trinitarian because I do NOt beleive that Jesus is YHWH, I believe Jesus to be the Son of God, the embodiment and manifestation of all that God is, our Saviour, our redeemer and our Judge.

Would a definite article prove that Jesus is God?

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