by androb31 236 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Narkissos,
That is a key issue in Hebrews, 1:2 states that Jesus was appointed Heir of all things and through whom he made the Universe.
Showing that through Jesus the Universe was made, from the very first seconds of creation, the very beginning.
Hebrews 1:6 also states that God states, "let ALL God's angels worship him"
Hebrews 1:6 also states that God states, "let ALL God's angels worship him"
Seems like the NWT forgot to insert "(other)" here.
Narkissos,
Actually, as I am sure you know, the NWT translates proskueno into Obeisnce in this case, as with all case direct to Jesus, but even here it is made clear that ALL angels (which woudl include the class of archangels, cherubims, seraphims, etc) are to,a ccording to the NWT, to Obeisnce to Jesus.
PSacramento.....There is an example of en + comitative dative in John 1:14: "The Word was made flesh and he dwelt with/among us (en hémin)". 1 John 4:17 uses meth' hémón "(in company) with us" in a different expression, which focuses more on the relational aspect.
Seems like the NWT forgot to insert "(other)" here
Agreed! Or should that be "[other]"! ;)
All the best,
Stephen
: Seems like the NWT forgot to insert "(other)" here.
Narkissos,
They also forgot to add it to Rev 5:13:
And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."
Maybe Jesus was praising himself here...
Leolais,
So, as per those examples, its shows that Jesus was with them and NOT them as opposed to the WT view on 1Thesallonians, which would make Jesus "us", correct?
hi sacramento
don't forget John 1:1 in your reasoning that being WITH someone means your are not what you are with.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, anyway the with in 1 john 4:17 is moot since it already says clearly that the word was made FLESH in the human sense. Reniaa
HI leolaia
you know 'all' implies a limited number and the 'other' is implied by context? why don't you mention it?
You also know proskuneo is obeisance and not be taken as religious worship in every usage only if the context demands it specifically.
Nark knows both these points are correct to why don't you both mention them?
Reniaa
hi leolaia
It's clear that Jesus has these things happen but that does not preclude he doing one or more of them especially as they are actions and you know this has secondary scriptorial support
1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
the kicker is that it says voice of an archangel
John 5:25
I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.
JOhn here is saying the dead will Hear the VOICE of Jesus then rise, so either we have a contradiction or Jesus and the archangels voice are one and the same.
Reniaa
