Germany, Octogenerian enters KH with Machine Gun (page 4)

insearchoftruth

because of the Society's policy on shunning family members----that it helps expose this rotten policy/doctrine and the effects it can have on family members.

The policy that is so heinous that if you look at books such as bible teach or any of the more public things, shunning is not mentioned at all..

Shunning, even moreso than blood is the policy that needs to change if the WTS wants to be thought of as something other than a cult.

Gayle

AFAIK that guy has never been a JW. He was widely known for adoring Adolf Hitler.

If it was a fact that he adored Adolf Hitler, then he is just evil. Why would anyone have a "machine gun"????

John Doe

Why would anyone have a "machine gun"????

Why would anyone not have a machine gun?

cameo-d

Why do we believe everything we hear or see in print?

How do we know this wasn't a publicity stunt paid for by (youknowwho) to "prove" how they are the real ones sanctioned by jah . Couldn't this have been a paid ploy to show how these people are "protected"?

Heck, other religions pay people to throw down their crutches and perform for a fake healing.

Is WT above a publicity stunt every now and then?

cognizant dissident

I beg to differ. The WTS most certainly has and does drive people to this kind of behaviour, because they literally can take everyone you love away from you for good. Imagine suddenly never seeing your son or daughter or grandkids again, solely because the leaders of the religion says so. You think this isn't enough to cause someone to snap? This guy may indeed have had some mental problems to begin with, so perhaps the shunning pushed him over the edge.

This isn't the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. Wasn't there another ex-Witness out in Washington or Oregon who snapped a couple of years ago because of the shunning policy?

The only good thing that comes of situations like this is it exposes just how horrific the WTS's shunning policies are and how it literally tears families apart for absolutely no valid reason, other than someone doesn't believe their deranged doctrines anymore.

Sorry, I'm not buying it. People have personal choice to how they respond to everything, including shunning. JW's have a personal choice whether they go along with the society's shunning policies. They choose the religion over their family members. That is their responsibility.

I am well aware of how psychologically devasating shunning is to families. When I was 1o years old, my mother was disfellowshipped and my father got custody of my brother and me. He tried to get her visitation rights revoked because she was bad association. She called her lawyer and he nixed that. Then he tried to psychologically pressure us to voluntarily shun her (he was an elder). At 12 years old, I had the strength to stand up to my domineering father, who was a bully and beat us for the slightest disobedience. I refused to shun my mother.

When I was in the sixth grade, a teacher (not a JW) thought she would teach a classmate, (my best friend), a lesson for disobedience on some trivial issue. She sent the girl out of the class on some flimsy excuse and then ordered the rest of the class not to talk to her and not to tell her why. The girl came back bewildered. She asked the girls at our table why no one would speak to her and they ignored her, silent. She looked over at me (her best friend) with pleading in her eyes, on the verge of tears, and asked me what was going on? I glanced at the teacher and I could see her eyes burning a warning look into me. (This teacher was a big fan of psychological mind games). I turned to my friend and told her everything, with the whole class staring at me and giving me dirty looks. The teacher turned purple, but she didn't say a word to me. I got the silent treatment too for the rest of the day and I just ignored it and talked to my friend like nothing was changed.

If an 11 and 12 year old child, who has been raised as a JW, just knows in their gut it is wrong to treat people this way, and can find the courage to stand up to the adults in authority, then so can anyone. It is a choice.

I was also shunned myself for three years when I was 18. It was devastating to me, but I at no time, felt any desire to kill anybody over it, least of all my old friends at the K.H. Of course, my uber dub, father joined in the shunning, as I knew he would, but my mother, who was reinstated by this time, didn't. Same daughter, different parents, different choice.

JW's are not the only ones who shun people. People of all religions and all walks of life cut family and friends out of their lives all the time for one reason or another. Let's face it, you're not really against shunning all family members. We want the WTBTS to shun pedophiles, remember? How do we know this guy was not abusive to his daughter in some way and he was one of the ones who was df'd? We only know his side of the story. For myself, I have no problem shunning pedophiles, and violent people of all cultures, religions and genders. That's just me, though, and where I draw my personal line. Some people choose to draw thiers over much more trivial things, like others not agreeing with them.

Regardless of whether the shunning was justified or not, the response of a normal, sane, mentally balanced person to being shunned is not to strap on enough fire power to take out a kingdom hall full of men, women, children, and elderly people who may not even have met you and may just be visiting for the day. Everyone on this planet has the right to say to anyone else, "hey you know what, I don't like you or your beliefs and I choose not to associate with you." That includes family members. That's why df'd persons who take the WTBTS to court over shunning, have yet to win a case.

However, no one has the right to say, "Oh yeah, you won't associate with me, then I'm going to blow your head off!". Just think of all the abusive partners who love to blame their spouse for their abuse. "He/she drove me to it!" They rarely take responsibility for their own violent reactivity.

I stand by my original statement that the WTBTS doesn't drive anybody to do anything as if they are helpless to resist. Everyone has a choice. His daughter made hers and he made his. Some of the people on this forum are so unbalanced by their hatred of everything WTBTS, that they can no longer tell right from wrong and feel the end justifies the means. Or, they are so used to giving over their personal responsibility to the WTBTS and it's rules that even after they've left they continue to do so. If it is still ruling your life, to the point that your hatred blinds you and skews your judgement, then you are still in prison, aren't you?

Cog

Mary

Regardless of whether the shunning was justified or not, the response of a normal, sane, mentally balanced person to being shunned is not to strap on enough fire power to take out a kingdom hall full of men, women, children, and elderly people who may not even have met you and may just be visiting for the day.

I'm not saying that the guy wasn't off his rocker. Clearly he is and it was absurd for him to go into a KH with a machine gun and mow down rank and file Witnesses whom he probably didn't even know. My point is that the shunning policy could easily have pushed him really over the edge. Everyone reacts differently to shunning. There are people who can walk away and not really care if their family shuns them or not. Others are driven to despair and commit suicide. And then there's people like this guy who reacted in the most extreme way possible. There have been other cases over the years where people have reacted like this to being shunned by their family which of course brings in to question the practice of shunning itself. Basically, it's a mental/emotional form of torture and shouldn't even be legal. Cases like this bring the WT's enforced shunning policy out into the open and what the tragic results can be.

Everyone on this planet has the right to say to anyone else, "hey you know what, I don't like you or your beliefs and I choose not to associate with you." That includes family members. That's why df'd persons who take the WTBTS to court over shunning, have yet to win a case.

Yes, but you and I both know that the average Witness is brainwashed and they do NOT make the consciencous decision to shun family members on their own. Nine times out of ten, they shun because that's what the Borg tells them to do.

I stand by my original statement that the WTBTS doesn't drive anybody to do anything as if they are helpless to resist.

Fair enough. And I stand by my statement that the WTBTS most certainly can and do drive people to the breaking point.

minimus

Couple of thoughts: Mary is one of the sharpest posters on the board. John Doe ain't no slouch either. Give it a rest, JD on Mary. You look like you're just trying to stir it up and I think you might do this because she's no wallflower but she is hot---all the more reason to leave her alone.

Regarding this old guy. He must be nutty but so what. There's plenty of people who just need a little encouragment to go wild and crazy. It seems this guy feels the Watchtower has made his daughter shun him. He's probably right. Does the WTBS share any blame for people losing it? It's a corporation but the answer is YES! THEIR decisions have amounted to many people dying and certainly losing their quality of life. Shame on them. They reap what they sow.

boyzone

I agree with Mary on this one. The stress of being shunned has driven me to act out of character in moments of despair so I can imagine how an elderly man in his 80's might feel. This guy may be sick and not have long to live. He may love and miss his daughter and desperately wants to see her before he goes. He may be a widower and lonely for his family. Admittedly a machine gun is a bit OTT but we're all aware of just how shunning can affect any one of us and make us act out of character.

I expect he deeply regrets his actions but they were the actions of a desperate man, and we all know where that stems from..

Germany, Octogenerian enters KH with Machine Gun

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