thanks freedom
you know... they say you should always leave em laughing and always leave em wanting more, so maybe I should just make that my swan song.
It's been a slice..
Germany, Octogenerian enters KH with Machine Gun
by skeeter1 67 Replies latest jw friends
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Mary
If you believe anything "good" come of situations like someone trying to annihilate a bunch of innocent people in a church, then you're just as unbalanced as the previous poster.
Go piss up a rope you condescending moron. I never suggested that anything justified what this guy tried to do.
Outsiders don't look at situations like this and think, "Oh, those JW's should rethink their deranged shunning policies". They think, "What a violent, deranged, nutjob. The WT obviously knew what they were doing when they kicked him out the first time!
Wow! Isn't that wonderful that you know what all outsiders are going to think and that no one would think "if a religion cut me off of my family like that, I might snap too."
You talk about there being "very little balanced perspective in the blame game being played here", yet you don't seem to be very balanced in your assessment yourself. You give several examples of people who have a history of violent behaviour as though every single person who suddenly snaps must possess the same traits. Guess what? Not everyone who commits a violent act has a violent history.
Guess what? I wasn't suggesting that they do. I gave examples of people with a history of violence only to show that we cannot just assume that this man snapped because of the JW shunning policy and also, we cannot assume that other people who do were otherwise normal, peaceful people who just snapped one day because of the abusive stress put on them by the WT.
And it works both ways dear. There are just as many examples to show that we cannot just assume that people snap because they have a history of violence. Neither you nor I know exactly what the history is here, so instead condemning anyone who believes that the WTS's shunning policy could be partly to blame, maybe you should take your own advise and look at the situation in a "balanced" way.
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blondie
A german jw from a jw db told me that it was a case of his daughter becoming a jw 3 years ago and not associating with her non-jw father. I wonder what further information will come out in the media.
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cognizant dissident
Go piss up a rope you condescending moron.
Excellent idea, Mary! I think pissing up a rope would be a much better use of my time than continuing to post on a forum where the quality of discussions lately has seemed to deteriorate to angry, unbalanced rants and ad hominem attacks.
Cog (off to piss up a rope)
ps: Blondie, I just want to say, I've always enjoyed your posts. You've helped inform many people on this forum, including myself, with your careful research. You've also consistently refused to jump in with the mob and get involved in personal attacks. You're a class act all the way!
Lady Lee: Ditto!
Simon and Angharad: If you see this, thanks for the forum. I've learned a lot over the last 3 years. It's been quite a ride!
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Mary
Bye!
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llbh
Hey Mary has your medication worn off?? If you not might need to get some more..
You conflate non sequiturs and behold you divine meaning, even though you have not listened to what is being said, sounds like jw's to me.
When visiting Canada i have one more reason not to visit a kingdom hall, Mary with her gun.
See us Brits liberated Germany and now see what they do with the freedom they kill jw's!! Or try to.
David
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Mary
llbh said: You conflate non sequiturs and behold you divine meaning, even though you have not listened to what is being said, sounds like jw's to me.
llbh, I understand exactly what CD was saying. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I did not appreciate her insinuating that I was promoting the idea that the guy who did this was justified in any way. No one is justified in walking into a Kingdom Hall (or anywhere else) with a machine gun and opening fire---or in this case, trying to open fire. I tried explaining that over and over again but CD apparently preferred to ignore that, and simply continued to assert that this guy must have had a violent history to pull a stunt like that and that the shunning policy played no role in it whatsoever.
What I said was that the Society's shunning policy has and does, push people to the brink and that it should not be legal. Rather than recognize that disfellowshipping is nothing but a form of mental abuse, CD decided to label me as "unbalanced" when I said that if anything good could come of this, it's exposing the shunning policy that tears families apart. That was all.
When visiting Canada i have one more reason not to visit a kingdom hall, Mary with her gun.
Whatever llbh.
Hope you enjoy your trip. -
Scully
Does the WTS actively endorse, foster and encourage the position that JWs should distance themselves (shunning included) from family members who do not share JW beliefs? Yes.
Does this hurt family members who want to maintain contact with their JW loved ones? Yes.
Does it justify desperate behaviour, such as violence and/or terrorism on the part of the people being shunned? NO.
Do we know the whole story of this 82 year old man and his daughter to know whether this is a "desperate measure" of an otherwise non-violent person or whether there is a long-standing history of violence in the family? NO. That will no doubt be disclosed during court proceedings.
Do we understand the feelings of desperation, anger, and projecting of violent thoughts toward those who are perceived to be responsible for the situation on the part of someone who is being psychologically tortured by the act of being shunned and excluded? Yes.
Do we recognize that the act of WTS-endorsed shunning is a an act of psychological terrorism and torture, employed by bullies and the purveyors of genocide alike, to elicit negative behaviour from their targets, and thus justify further acts of psychological terrorism against the targets? According to Barbara Coloroso, and her books The Bully, the Bullied, and the Bystander and Extraordinary Evil - A Brief History of Genocide, the answer is a resounding YES.
I feel very sorry for this old man - he obviously needed emotional support, perhaps even from somewhere like JWN, to understand the dynamics he was facing with being shunned by his JW daughter. A situation like this one demonstrates how education about the operating tactics of JWs and other similar groups and emotional support for people affected by these policies are vital. Unfortunately, even in this day and age, not everyone takes advantage of the vast wealth of knowledge available - or maybe they just don't know how. I'd like to think that if he had access to someplace like JWN, this unholy mess could have been avoided.
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quietlyleaving
cong made some excellent points. This guy entered the KH with a machine gun and also possessed a samurai sword and a knife which he'd brought along but left in his car
Imo the witnesses calm behaviour puts them in a good light and the society's shunning policies won't detract from this.
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Mary
Thank you Scully. Excellent analysis of the entire fiasco.
Hope you enjoy your trip.