by Billygoat 49 Replies latest jw friends
One other thing.
Besides attending a meeting of people that are pro-pot, I would also attend a Cocaine Anonymous meeting, and talk with former users and see what they have to say about recreational use of pot.
This post has been edited for those watching their intake of "fluff."
Obviously these two need to get into some couples therapy. A good therapist (so hard to find!) will gently guide them to their real issues.
. http://www.norml.org is the site to go to for pro-pot news and politics.
I would ask those who have responded to this to consider, what if the substance in question was Xanax, prescribed by a doctor? Would Kammy be right to defend herself about doing what the doctor said that she should? Would you see David as an interfering boyfriend if he objected to her use of a prescribed substance?
I can definitely tell you that Xanax is way more mind-numbing. Does the issue change because Kammy is self-medicating?
Ideally, we would not use alcohol, pot, or prescription drugs to alter our mood. Neither would we, ideally, run to television, music, or other pursuits to escape reality. Or would we?
When the frozen remains of the ancient ice man were found, he not only had significant skill in making his own tools, he also had medicinal herbs in his pouch. Maybe medicating ourselves is a healthy, adpative response. Monkeys do it, as do dogs.
Kammy is well aware of her addictions, and is seeking treatment. David and she had better identify the trust issues in their relationship that would cause her to hide some behaviour from him.
Mike
Hi Mike,
I just wanted to respond to your remark about Xanax. I agree with you that it is mind altering, and it bothers me to no end that several members of my family are numbing themselves with it instead of doing the work it would take to free them from the anxiety they are suffering. (Now before ya'll start shooting at me, know that I am not at all opposed to medication when necessary. But I know too many people who pop Xanax like candy and think it's okay just because a doctor gave it to them).
My sibling, the recovering alcoholic, has recently been given Xanax by a doctor and I wanted to scream. My sibling said that it was "even better than drinking" as far as how they felt on it.
Is it solving the problems, though? No. That's the saddest part. They won't go into therapy, and can't see that it's only adding another problem. Exchanging one addiction for another.
You can't escape unhappiness by drugging yourself. No matter what form that drug takes. That is the point I was trying to make before.
essie
Hi Andi,
I am sorry your friend is going through this. I am the son and brother of alcoholics. They are addicts and always will be addicts. Kammy is an addict and will always be an addict.
Hopefully she will decide not to be a practicing addict so that she can have a good life. The power to do this lies only in herself and with her higher power.
Dave must realize that he is powerless over her addiction, just as she is. Ranting and raving, hiding her pot, forbidding her to smoke, etc. etc. etc. are like trying to hold back Niagara Falls with a Bounty. Ain't gonna happen.
I personally found Alanon to be very helpful to me in dealing with the problems that being around an addict can cause. Its not for everyone but it worked for me. I made some wonderful friends in the program who are still my friends today. Hey, its free, can't beat the price and at the very least he may learn some things about himself.
Dave is not being a control freak, but he will have to learn that when dealing with an addict, no one is in control. Alcohol and marijuana are drugs, pure and simple. Some people can handle their use, some cannot. Addicts cannot. Kammy is an addict.
If he loves Kammy, thats great. She needs someone to love her. But, he won't ever make her not an addict. He cannot make her stop using.
I hope they will decide to get into a program.
Alanon saved my life 10 years ago and I will always be thankful it was there for me.
Wish them well for me.
Take care
Joel
It would be a real shame if the relationship ended over a non issue.
Some here dogmatically assert that pot use is wrong for a coke addict. Then again, some here would assert that pot use is wrong for anyone. Personally, I would consider those people uninformed or reactionary or both.
As to pot use by a coke addict being wrong, I guess I have no opinion. Common sense and (a little bit of) experience tells me that the two are totally unconnected. But then agian, I have no experience with coke, only a little with weed, and sometimes common sense is wrong.
Even with these thoughts, I have to admit that if I were in David's shoes, I'd be a little afraid. If I were in Kammy's shoes, I might get Comf to look at me twice, but that is another subject altogether. Still, I hope that they will try to get to the real truth about the matter, rather than reactionary statements like "if you really love me you would give up pot for me".
I was told (or at least infered) by more than a couple of elders and even sisters that "if you loved Jehovah, you would shave your beard". It's just not a valid thing to even propose.
Is it a valid thing to propose that "if kammy loves david, she will give up pot"? Yes. NO. Maybe. Probably not. It is only valid if a)the pot use is genuinely hurtful to the relationship, or b)David truly can't overcome his possibly irrational fears about the pot use, but he is worth hanging on to in spite of that. Then of course, the question cuts both ways, as questions often do.
So what does Kammy's drug counselor think about it?
SixofNine,
I agree that if would be a shame if the relationship ended over a non-issue. But I have to disagree that this is a non-issue. You are focusing merely on the use of pot, not on the relationship. (Could that be because you are a pot user with no relationships? :^) The real issue goes much deeper than that. It has to do with trust and compatibility. Dave has supported Kammy through some obviously tough times; he has earned her trust. BG mentioned in chat that Kammy has been smoking pot all during their relationship, without Dave's knowledge. Now he wants to know he can trust her not to screw up their life together the way she screwed up her life alone. He's asking a simple thing--that she forego the use of pot.
Sacrifices ALWAYS have to be made in a marriage, and if she's not WILLING or ABLE to make this one, then it certainly bodes ill for their future life together. I think this is what concerns Dave.
RW
Thank you everyone for your comments. I'm surprised though that there aren't more marijuana advocates here. I was really expecting you.
Valis - Yes, we're still on! Hope you're still coming?
Essie - I have that book. Had it for two years and never read it. Maybe it would make better use in David's life? Haha!
Jerry - Thanks for your thoughts. Cocaine Anon meetings? I'll definitely bring that up. It'd be cool to hear what other addicts think of pot.
Joel - Dave understands he cannot make Kammy change. She wants to stay away from coke. She knows she can never do that again. She does have her limits. Pot just isn't one of them.
Six - You've brought up some really good points. But I also have some questions. How can the coke and pot not be related? Is not a drug a drug? David is working very hard not to over-react, but calmly stand by his convictions. He doesn't necessarily think pot is a terrible thing for everyone. But he feels for an addict that it is trodding on slippery ground. He does not question Kammy's love for him. He is sure of that more than anything else. He is also sure she is an addict and can rationalize her behavior with almost anything. One of David's biggest concerns is that she admitted she's been smoking pot since the inception of their relationship - he just never knew about it. I think he's more hurt by Kammy's deceit than by her smoking the pot.
BTW - David has asked Kammy to ask her drug counselor. Kammy refuses because she knows the counselor will not think it is acceptable behavior. I like Kammy and think she's a great gal. I just think she is taking advantage of David's patience and kindness and taking their love for granted. I think David probably needs to be aware of that as well.
Andi
PS: Anymore comments anyone? I know there are pot advocates somewhere on this board. Come on...put the pipe down and give a girl some help!
One other comment....
David is trying to be understanding, but feels he's settling for something he doesn't agree with.
Of course, if pot use indeed is a part of the coke addiction, then it is reasonable for him not to "agree with" it (and make it a deal breaker). But if not, and it is just something he doesn't think people should do, well, there are no doubt many things that he and she will not agree on. That is the price of being in a relationship with an equal adult.
Kammy, if you're reading this, don't you dare use my words to fuel your co-dependant hostage taking of David. Honesty is crucial here.
Therapist Six-covering ass from all angles class
How can the coke and pot not be related? Is not a drug a drug?
No, I don't think so. That doesn't make any sense to me. Perhaps it would be true to say that an addiction is an addiction. I doubt even that, but I just don't know.
I do know that coke works one way, alcohol works another way, heroin works differently than those two, and weed works altogether differently than all the others. And so on. Some are physically addictive quickly, some slowly, and some not at all. Some are mentally addictive very quickly, and some, for some people, not at all.
I have a good friend who does pot on occasion, and drinks some. At one point in her life, she abused methamphetimines pretty badly. She's done acid and mushrooms. She told me of her experience with coke. Someone evidently gave her some very pure stuff; she tried to explain to me how good it was, but felt she couldn't even relate it. She says she feels like she is alive today because the people who gave her the coke would not let her do more. When she sobered up the next day, she realized that she didn't ever want to do that agian, because she knew she would be hooked immediately.
I have never used pot, so can't speak from personal experience on this one, but I have a son who uses it regularly. He is definitely an addictive personality. His wife doesn't like it, but accepts it, I would have to say.
Kammy sounds to me like a poor risk for marriage at this time. Maybe she and Dave aren't as well matched as it appears. Opposites attract, but maybe are bad for each other. It doesn't take much to un-attract either. I would say they need a lot more time.
Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
