What should he do? Can you help?

by Billygoat 49 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Eric

  Andi,

  When I left the JW's at 16, I went on an absolutely determined crusade to try all the illegal narcotics I could get my hands on. My JW upbringing had put these things (and of course, porneia, in all it's forms) on so high a shelf I simply had to climb up and indulge.

  With all due respect to COMF and the organizations he mentions, these drugs do affect the brain and body in different ways, and can be handled with different approaches.

  My experiences with cocaine were indeed that of a rollercoaster, tremendous highs and lows, with growing anxiety and paranoia.
  The only reason any user doesn't drop it straight away is that the psychic dependancy is an absolute bitch. (Though nothing like the physical dependancy opiates create, it can be tough as hell.)

  Pot is not even in the same league. When I got out of my destructive phase, I decided that I would just smoke dope, (I hear it now: Denial, Denial...) and I did go through the arrested juevenile stage that COMF mentions where it still seemed cool to be involved in seeking it out, buying it, testing it, but as I matured it all became rather boring, and eventually I dropped pot totally, not out of a need to do so or by any outside pressure, but by a lack of interest in it.

  For several years, I couldn't be bothered toke at all. Then I bumped into some smokers cleaning their dope on the counter in the mens room at a concert, I asked if I could have their seeds, and since then I've had a kind of hobby of growing my own. I have other sources for seeds now, and I grow way more than I could ever use. I still have some of my original batch of '98 in my freezer. That might have something to do with the fact that the last joint I smoked was on my birthday, November 30.

  But to come to the point, Andi, if a potential employer came to me with the job offer of my dreams, but it came with the proviso that I'd be drug tested every morning I wouldn't have any problem: The pot would have to go, and it would not be a problem.

  If Dave feels that strongly about her pot use, he should present it as a delimiting factor (make or break) and Kammy will decide which of the two will make her happier.

  Alternate Advice: Dave, (as far as we know) has no personal knowledge of pot, and yet has fallen in love with a doper. Dave ought to smoke a joint, go for walk in the park, come back and throw one into Kammy and then talk.

  Eric
• 

  cellomould

  I like that idea Eric!

  get him high and then make the decision. adds some clarity and perspective to the discussion, that's for sure.

  oh wait, one more comment:

  are the suppliers of her pot also connections for cocaine? That's an obvious pitfall. One of these 'friends' may offer her cocaine again. She may not be prepared for her body's response to the stimulus.

  cellomould

  "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
• 

  ladonna

  Andi,

  There has been so much great advice already that I feel I have little to add.
  However, Kammy is Kammy, and David is David. A marriage, relationship, engagement, partnership, whatever we may like to term it, does not one person make.
  Kammy and David are each individuals with individual weaknesses and strengths.
  Kammy is showing a definitive leaning towards an addictive personality and David is showing his total dislike of this personality type wrapped up in glossy paper as the woman he loves.

  David has a choice to "not" get any further involved with Kammy as Kammy also has the choice to be involved with smoking "pot".

  That is freedom of choice. Kammy has her choices and David has his.
  I totally agree a councilor would help, but I also question whether Kammy really wants a councilor to help her get off of the "pot".

  If David really dislikes Kammy's drug dependancy; tells her so and she still continues, he should leave. Otherwise he must ask himself if he is co-dependant on Kammy's behavior patterns to the degree that he would sacrifice his own belief systems.

  Just my 10 cents worth.

  Ana
• 

  Billygoat

  Thanks everyone for your viewpoints. Any updates I can give in the future I will. I'll be sharing my thoughts as well as the ones posted here. I'm considering printing some of these out for David.

  Andi
• 

  patio34

  Hi Andi,

  I don't know anything at all but what i've experienced. I agree entirely with COMF, and he speaks from experience.

  I have just exited a relationship with a drug addict (my daughter) that has been hell for me. I am not exaggerating. And i heard some of the same baloney from her: i only smoke pot, blah, blah, blah.

  I've been seeing a therapist and we both agree that i have a serious co-dependency/enabling problem.

  I would tell your friend David to spare himself years of heartache and despair and let the addict go--far away! As TR so cleverly put it.

  But some people just get sucked into being co-dependents because of love (ambushed by love) and then go thru hell to get out of it years later, with kids and all then.

  Melody Beattie's books on Co-dependency helped me more than Al-Anon, but it's very similar.

  Good luck to your friend--he needs it. He may be in for a decade or more of misery. Addicts are hell. Addicts are hell. Escape from them as soon as you can. Or decide you're going to have a pretty much miserable life, as I did for about 10 years (and I got cancer too, which i think was partially, if not completely caused by the stress).

  It's sad. I know i'm rambling, but i'm still suffering because of drug addiction. Oh, it's easy for some to be glib and call it a non-issue. Or that other things are the issues. DRUGS ARE THE ISSUE. Nothing can be solved until they're gone.

  Oh, wellll. Bye and good luck.

  Sadly and forlornly,
  Pat
• 

  teejay

  I'm coming very late to this discussion and have little to add to what's already been said. Except for two points:

  1. In any intimate relationship, we must be willing to accept people and love them just as they are without requiring that they change to 'earn' our love. If we cannot do that, if for whatever reason we see hurdles that cannot be overcome, then we should be honest with them (and, more importantly, with ourselves) and move on. This is especially true if there are no little ones involved.

  To illustrate: I am impressed with RW who'd begrudgingly give up coffee if his wife asked him. It's not something I'd even consider. In my opinion, she should learn to live with it since it's something that he enjoys and isn't necessarily detrimental to him or the relationship. We cannot go around making rules and defining boundaries for every aspect in the lives of our significant others.

  That doesn't mean that we like everything they do. We may not. But we DO accept it as part of their personality and grant them that. Every single relationship owes its success to this.

  2. Regardless of who we meet and form bonds with, that person will have flaws (or differences of preference). Admittedly, some flaws are worse than others, but it's up to us to decide which ones we can live with and which ones we can't.

  The answer to this question lies with Kammy and Dave. As you share these ideas from these posts with them, they may be helped or hindered, depending on how strongly they support their respective positions. Dave may be bolstered by some of the comments, showing Kammy how 'wrong' she is. Or vice versa. The truth of the matter is that NEITHER of them are wrong. It's simply a matter of what each of them are willing to live with.

  later,
  tj

  Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be a very silent place if no birds sang except for the best. - unknown
• 

  siegswife

  Hi Andi, If I could add my 2...I don't see anything wrong with pot and I would never tell anyone over the age of 21 that they shouldn't smoke it if they want to. Of course, moderation is the key, but I digress...

  I agree with COMF to a point. Kammy should be working her program and avoiding all mind altering substances. She also should have put any emotional entanglements on hold for at least a year. The fact that she's smoking doesn't neccesarily mean that she'll go back to chemical dependency (I can say that from experience) but she obviously hasn't been coming clean with herself. If she was, she wouldn't be sneaking around and 'acting' like an addict.

  I guess what I'm trying to say is that, with addiction, comes an assortment of attitudes and behaviors that are an integral part of the addiction. It doesn't seem as if she's being very diligent about changing those behaviors, which may be an indicator that she's not quite there.

  Honesty is the most important ingredient to any relationship, OR major life changes that people make in their lives. It sounds like she hasn't been totally honest in either of these areas.

  Lea
• 

  Francois

  Rational Witness,

  First of all, I did not invite you to use my private email. And even though there's an implicit invitation to use it contained in the fact that it's published, you are the first to do so uninvited. This I find as arrogant as your point of view. Which one?: This one -

  "Why, precisely, does Kammy feel SO insistent about pot? Don't you question THAT aspect of the situation? Is pot more important than Dave? If my wife insisted that I give up coffee (say, for health reasons or economic reasons, whatever), and asked me 'to do it for her,' I would do so ... reluctantly, perhaps, but I would do so. Is pot THAT important?" [IF my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon. So what? Are you the new exemplar to the human race? Who cares what YOU'D do?]

  Are you really that dense? You really pontificate about Pot, while missing the point altogether. I'd be willing to bet that Pot's got nothing to do with it. The substance could be chocolate. Or honey-coated bee's knees.

  And I react to you as I do because I've seen people's lives wrecked by psychobabbling acquaintences (or worse, elders) who give advice like they know what they're talking about when they don't have the first clue what's going on.

  In fact, when it comes to the relationship between a man and a woman, NO ONE knows what goes on - sometimes even the couple themselves. Best in cases like this to get them to see the wisdom of going to a professional who can help THEM sort out the elements of the problem, and then to help THEM to deal with the situation. The professional is a catalyst, not an ingredient. And he certainly doesn't attempt to decide what the issues are FOR THEM as you have done.

  A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, drink deeply or touch not. And whatever you do, don't give your advice unless you're ready to accept ALL the responsibility if the couple or person is so silly as to take it.

  That answer your question?

  You are not invited to respond via my private email.

  Francois
• 

  teejay

  First of all, I did not invite you to use my private email. And even though there's an implicit invitation to use it contained in the fact that it's published, you are the first to do so uninvited.

  Anybody other than me have comments about this comment? Wow, Frank.

  By leaving your email box open, your invitation is implied -- otherwise you'd lock it. The only people I have ever asked to email me haven't, and those who have did so "uninvited" but I welcomed their mails every time. Isn't it a tad bit hypocritical to get upset when others take advantage of an avenue of discourse that we voluntarily place before them? I think so.

  You are not invited to respond via my private email.

  Very odd.

  If your email box is open, so is the invitation for others to use it. I agree with your comments that a counselor might be useful for Kammy and Dave, but this view about your email being private... dang if that's not odd.
• 

  sadiejive

  I haven't been here long so I feel kinda funny giving advice. But I will take a stab at this because it is something to which I can somewhat relate.

  IMO, Kammy is feeling "controlled" by Dave. Apparently her way of feeling like her life is "her" life has been through her "freedom" to do drugs...despite the consequences or the affects that it has had and has on those who care about her. I don't think this makes her a bad person nor do I think this is something she is doing intentionally to hurt your friend. It is something that she thinks she needs. Something that she can do because she wants to do it. Telling her she can't or threatening her or ultimatums will only prove to her the one thing that she is trying to escape by doing this. And that is that someone else, besides herself, has some control over her life.

  The best way, IMO, that Dave can help her is to let her do it. In time, perhaps she will realize what she is doing and how silly it is. In the meantime, he should encourage her to seek counseling. It sounds to me as if her problem is far more deep rooted than just "drug abuse". He does need to remind her that the substance IS illegal. He also needs to assure her that his pleads with her to discontinue using isn't that he is trying to "control" her or that he is trying to boss her around but that he cares about her mental and physical health and...not to mention, marijuana is illegal. If she gets caught (or if he is with her) she/they will be in a great deal of trouble.

  Good luck to you and your friend(s),
  sadie