What should he do? Can you help?

by Billygoat 49 Replies latest jw friends

  • Francois
    Francois

    First, I'd say that Rational Witness isn't as rational as he's claiming. He's got an agenda going in that all he sees, he's seeing through the filter of that agenda. Not objective and certainly not all that rational.

    I can agree there are control issues going on here in BOTH directions. And I personally feel this couple needs counseling from a qualified therapist. And I do mean that rare kind of therapist who really knows where he's coming from and won't attempt to push his personal agenda into this couple's relationship. They may have to go to a dozen therapists before they find the right counselor for them.

    What seems to be going on now sounds like a Mexican standoff to me. And I don't think they're qualified to deal with it by themselves. Certainly romantic love cannot inform this relationship. They need professional help in the worst way.

    $ 0.02.

    Francois

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    The real issue goes much deeper than that. It has to do with trust and compatibility. Dave has supported Kammy through some obviously tough times; he has earned her trust. BG mentioned in chat that Kammy has been smoking pot all during their relationship, without Dave's knowledge. Now he wants to know he can trust her not to screw up their life together the way she screwed up her life alone. He's asking a simple thing--that she forego the use of pot.

    I agree to an extent, RW. But even here, I think grown ups should be focusing on the real issues. To call the real issue pot, when it is really honesty, is just a bandaid.

    I did some research on adult children of alcoholics when I was interested in the girl I mentioned earlier. Honesty is key problem for alcohol addicts, but also for the children who grow up in that environment. An addict lies or colors the truth to do what they do. It becomes a matter of course for them.

    In this case, I see that Kammy, rather than just owning her pot use, hid it. No doubt she knew it would make David uncomfortable, and she did not want the confrontation. That behavior is bad for a relationship, but it could be about almost anything she doesn't want confrontation on, even just simple human weaknesses.

  • TR
    TR

    Andi,

    Unless smoking pot is legal where you are, Dave should dump Kammi. If he doesn't share her love of illegal drugs, he should dump her. Unless he wants to get in the middle of a drug bust, he should dump her. Unless he wants to stay with a girl that has an addiction to controlled substances disorder, he should dump her. Unless he wants to be seen as a poor example to future kids, adults, etc., he should dump her.

    Did I mention he should dump her? She's got issues, and Dave's not a councelor, is he? If Dave wants to have a future with this girl, he should stay away for a year at least, then see how she's doing.

    My opinions only.

    TR

    I'm gonna make mince meat outta that Osama!

  • JerryTX
    JerryTX

    Xena wanted to post some of her strong opinions about this, but she smoked a few bongs today with Tim and lost all ambition to reply to this thread.

    (Xena, don't you cry now! I'm just teasing you!!!!!)

  • COMF
    COMF

    Andi,

    I'm in recovery, too. January 10th will be the seventh anniversary of the day I entered into sobriety. My personal drug of choice was alcohol. I lived in, and eventually managed, a three-quarter house for recovering addicts, for four years. I've attended meetings at Narcotics Anonymous as well as Alcoholics Anonymous, and have been to a couple of huge weekend get-togethers of the recovery community from all over the nation, at Lake Whitney.

    I'm not espousing a philosophy right now; I'm stating a few facts. Here they are:

    You introduced Kammy with the statement, "Years ago she loved nose candy..." But a few lines later you said, "Kammy's been sober for almost a year now. (The longest she's ever been sober.)" If Kammy's "been sober" (your words) for almost a year, then the "years ago" phrase is not only inaccurate, it strongly suggests an enabling attitude.

    At every Narcotics Anonymous meeting they open the meeting with a reminder that, for an addict seeking recovery, no drugs, including alcohol, are acceptable. Drinking and/or smoking pot are universally recognized in the recovery community as relapse, and an addict who does so is not "recovering," she is what they call "in her disease." If Kammy has ever been the slightest bit serious about recovery, then she already has this memorized; she recites it along with the group at every NA meeting.

    The fact that Kammy has been smoking pot means Kammy is not recovering. She is still an active addict.

    As an addict, Kammy is not capable of being in a healthy relationship. No active addict is. Not with David, not with anyone else. It's a simple fact... everything revolves around the acquiring of more drugs. Everything. Any other concerns rate only peripheral attention. David's life with her will be a rollercoaster of tantrums, moodiness, trumped-up guilt trips, deceit, lies, and total selfishness.

    Should I leave Kammy because she smokes pot?

    No. You should extract yourself from the relationship because she is an addict. Reassure her that you don't hate her, that she has potential and can become a whole person. Tell her that you cannot, and will not, put yourself through the misery of trying to get an addict to act like a mature adult.

    Am I blowing it out of proportion?

    No. You haven't yet realized how serious it is.

    Should I stand up for what I think is right?

    Aren't you already?

    Am I being too much of a hard ass?

    You have to take care of yourself. Nobody else is going to do it for you. It means making hard decisions and forcing yourself to stick by them sometimes. That's why they call us "adults."

    COMF

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    David's life with her will be a rollercoaster of tantrums, moodiness, trumped-up guilt trips, deceit, lies, and total selfishness.

    I'm curious, wouldn't this have manifested itself quite loudly by now?

  • COMF
    COMF

    SON, I would think the answer to that depends on different factors: how rosily his glasses are scenarioed. Whether she's just starting to slide back or has been at it for a while. Whether she took recovery seriously at first, or hasn't ever really wanted it.

    The folks in AA/NA have a general rule regarding relationships: no relationship at all during the first year of sobriety (other than family, of course). It just interferes with the addict's concentration on herself and recovery. I guess Kammy didn't think that one applied to her, either.

    COMF

  • RationalWitness
    RationalWitness

    Francois,

    You said:

    First, I'd say that Rational Witness isn't as rational as he's claiming. He's got an agenda going in that all he sees, he's seeing through the filter of that agenda. Not objective and certainly not all that rational.
    I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about (I doubt if anyone but you does), but I will remind you that the discussion here is about Dave and Kammy, not me.

    RW

  • Valis
    Valis

    BG, yes, w/only bells on.....hehehe

    I didn't mention my personal experience, but BG asked for the Jokers, Smokers, & Midnight Tokers, to speak up so I will. I have been involved with several women, after I left the "truth", that were of the mind that smoking pot was unacceptable. I snuck around a little bit, but came to the realization that no one can dictate personal choice, good or bad, regardless of how much I liked them. There were instances when I offered to not indulge in or around their respective houses, but this was far from good enough. In so many instances it really boils down to what cultural and personal aspects you expect another person to confrom to in order to be with them/you...sound familiar? I've read lots of posts by people who have successfuly used counselors and group programs to stop using any number of drugs, but I would also ask those people to consider the large number of people that therapy fails, much like other behaviour modification regimes....sound familiar? What does one do with these people, and how do you treat them? If Kammy is resistant to therapy in regards to all drugs then one must exercise some restraint in making a descision that could poison the entire relationship. I don't think a counselor is in order, nor a therapist, but perhaps a mediator, especially if David is really interested in being w/her, and not participating in a drama episode. A counselor or therapist would probably not give Kammy any leeway based on her past drug problems, but focus very specificaly on not what Dave is feeling, but her actions alone. A mediator can keep confidential information and see both sides neutrally, as it isn't their job to judge, but come to a concensus among the arguing parties. If in fact David and kammy cannot reach a concensus and be happy together, then both of their courses are clear. Seek greener pastures as it were.

  • cellomould
    cellomould

    Valis and other's make a good point in that a mediator is absolutely necessary. Hopefully with a lot of objectivity.

    One good reason was mentioned by several people:

    'Dave feels as if Kammy loves pot more than her'

    This is a BOGUS issue, but if this is what Dave and Kammy argue over constantly, their relationship is in big trouble.

    Why?

    Love is a drug. This is very very real here folks. Drugs are powerful because they bind to receptive areas in the brain which are normally for control of bodily sensations and/or behaviors.

    We are constantly driven by impulses from psychoactive drugs, whether or not we are addicted to drugs synthesized outside our bodies.

    Dave will try to administer his drug of love to Kammy in an attempt to override her impulses for other drugs and wean her from her addictions.

    Psychiatrists are licensed to administer drug therapy. Not Dave. He is defeating himself.

    Dave cannot continue to act as if his love can 'cure' her.

    What should Dave do about the relationship?

    Remember that Kammy is Kammy and Dave is Dave. Kammy is not Dave.

    If Dave's love (= care, concern, apart from attraction and desire) is taxed too heavily, then he should redefine his relationship with Kammy. This is the real issue, not all of that ego nonsense.

    Will his ego stand for being nothing less than the most important thing in Kammy's life? That makes for an unhealthy definition of an intimate relationship.

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

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