What should he do? Can you help?

by Billygoat 49 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  RationalWitness

  Francois,

  I wrote you a polite email to inquire why you made the unfounded attack on me that you did in this thread. That's called being considerate. BillyGoat asked for opinions, and I offered mine in sincerity, and they did include agreement that this couple needs professional help. Your comments, coming as they do from someone who is a self-admitted liar and hypocrite who preys on others ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18024&site=3), are at least as suspect as any advice I offered. Now that I know you have emotional problems as well, I will not attempt any further rational discussion with you.

  RW

  P.S. With apologies to BillyGoat for this intrusion on an otherwise important thread: since Francois does not want his email used, I am responding to him here.
• 

  ladonna

  Andi,

  Just a short notation to my post before.
  I have seen it mentioned a few times about whether Dave is "contolling" Kammy. I don't feel he is.

  However, Kammy "is" being controlled willingly by mind altering substance.
  Here is a link to a fair and informative site on the use of this substance...
  . http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/cannabis/dangers.htm

  I would like to wish your friends all the best. I doubt that either of them is trying to hurt the other deliberately.

  Ana

  Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too...Voltaire
• 

  SixofNine

  I got a kick out of that site, Ladonna. It almost seems counterproductive if they want to discourage pot use. *I see now that they don't* -- ck out this page on the same site: http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/cannabis/mixing.htm
• 

  Xena

  Well I hadn't intended on posting to this as I really didn't consider it any of my business but since Jerry dragged my name into it....

  Smoking pot can be an addiction for some people just like alchohol, just like chocolate, just like coffee....the difference of course is that it is illegal. lol and I have my "issues" with that, but another time and place, huh? Smoking pot on occasion does not make you a stoner or a bad person anymore than having a drink makes you an alcholic or abusive person. Every person is different, every situation is different to reduce everyone who smokes pot to the status of a addict is like the JW's saying EVERYONE who leaves the org is an immoral person and will die.

  I don't know these people, I don't know all the aspects of their relationship. It appears to me that he wants her to be something she isn't and maybe doesn't want to be...so unless they can come to some kind of compromise I don't see a future for them, but that is just my OPINION

  Wow Jerry I was able to post a coherent thought (I hope anyway) even though I sometimes smoke pot...and look no tears!!!! Imagine that! Will wonders never cease...

  Just my thoughts...for what they are worth
• 

  tyydyy

  I love this conversation! I do disagree with most of the posters here on this subject. Sorry. I have my own opinions.

  I have been drinking alcohol for 20 yrs. I don't think I have ever gone a month without having at least 1 beer. So that means I have never been "clean and sober" by a hardline definition. I can say that I have only been "drunk" 3 times in that 20 yr period. Technically that makes me an abuser. Now......Do I care that I am a drug abuser who hasn't been able to kick the habit in 20 yrs. NO! It has not been destructive for me or people around me. If it became destructive then I would have to cut back. If I couldn't cut back then I would have to cut it out completly. Does that make sense? Now put any drug you want in place of alcohol and you have my opinion on that.

  We're always trying to alter our mental state. Sometimes we go to an amusement park and ride a rollercoaster to do it. If this activity caused physical and psychological damage then I would advise against it. I undestand that there are many that don't like the way the ride alters their mental state. That's OK. We also use food to alter our mental state and I'm not talking about the obvious ones like chocolate and coffee. I mean some people get grouchy if they haven't had their "fix" (lunch). Their mood changes almost immediately. Does that make them "addicts"? YES! Do they need to cut out food altogether because they are addicted? NO! The food is not destructive unless they're eating to much. When someone is overweight and destroying their life because they abuse food, they need to be taught how to change the problems in their life that's causing them to "abuse" this mind altering substance. They don't have to cut it out altogether. It would be easier to put them in the catagory of "recovered" if they could say that they haven't touched food in 1 year but I wouldn't recommend that.

  Some people choose to destroy their lives by abusing drugs. That doesn't make the drugs bad. It means this person needs to change something else in their lives. That's why the AA NA WA EA organizations advocate finding a higher power to help you. They encourage you to give up your personal choices and let some religion or religious ideas control your life. It works for many. It does not work for many. They obviously don't have all the answers. A psychologist who actually understands why people abuse themselves and who applies that knowledge on an individual basis would probably be most effective for an "addict".

  This relationship is about a difference of opinion about what they consider acceptable behavior in their relationship. If they can't compromise, or better yet, come to a mutual understanding of each other's wants and desires then the relationship will not be optimum. There is no such thing as a perfect relationship. It's about working with each other. It is not about putting labels on each other that act as wedges.

  TimB
• 

  JerryTX

  Tim,

  I don't think being drunk, even slobbering/vomiting drunk three times in 20 years would classify you as "an abuser" by any stretch of the imagination. If so, probably everybody on this board would have to consider themselves an alcoholic. Me especially. LOL.

  As far as getting grumpy when I don't get my lunch on time, I would say that qualifies me as a low blood sugar person, but certainly not an addict by any means. (Geez, when I was on the Atkins Diet I became a complete bastard I felt so irritable.) Of course, I do love good food and there was a time I was prone to munch down whenever I was feeling blue after coming out of the Borg. When I was a few pounds short of 300 (megadude size), I decided I was an addict who needed to get some control or seriously affect my health in a negative way. I used methamphetamine (good drug) to help me get started.

  You say despite the fact some people destroy their life with drugs that that doesn't make drugs bad. I would agree and disagree with this statement. Some drugs are very bad and will utterly destroy you physically and psychologically. The few people I have known that did cocaine on the weekend or recreational basis were badly hurt by it. For *some* people, pot is very bad. It becomes addicting for their body/mind type. For a person who has had a near life destroying experience with recreational drugs, a new mindset is needed to prevent a relapse. Kammy had a near life destroying experience with cocaine. That's the critical piece of info in this scenario. You don't skate close to the edge of something that nearly
  ruined your life. Can an alcoholic after years of sobriety go back to having an occasional happy hour or a few beers. The evidence is overwhelmingly no, unfortunately.

  Can a former food addict go back to keeping multiple flavors of Ben & Jerry's in his freezer and keep his weight at 235? Lord knows, I've tried. LOL. There is no ice cream in my freezer. Too easy to fall back into old habits.

  You said:

  "If they can't compromise, or better yet, come to a mutual understanding of each other's wants and desires then the relationship will not be optimum. There is no such thing as a perfect relationship. It's about working with each other. It is not about putting labels on each other that act as wedges."

  Agree with all of the above.

  --------------------------------------

  "The truth will set you free--but first it will make you damn mad."

  M. Scott Peck - "The Different Drum"
• 

  JerryTX

  Hi Xena,

  I agree that someone who smokes pot isn't an addict. It just depends what that thing (pot, chocolate, booze, shopping) becomes to a person.

  Maybe a fun thread would be "Post Your Favorite Addiction"?

  See you guys tonight! Don't dump any liquids on my head!

  --------------------------------------

  "The truth will set you free--but first it will make you damn mad."

  M. Scott Peck - "The Different Drum"
• 

  tyydyy

  Jerry,

  You said:

  <<<<Too easy to fall back into old habits>>>>>>

  That's because you didn't identify and correct the real reason you couldn't control your eating. The ice cream was not and is not the problem. It's only the symptom.

  You said:

  <<<<<<<<Can an alcoholic after years of sobriety go back to having an occasional happy hour or a few beers. The evidence is overwhelmingly no, unfortunately.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  I have 2 friends who are "alcoholics" who enjoy an occasional beer and it does not destroy their lives. The evidence I see is not overwhelming.

  The problem you have with my calling myself an addict because I've been drinking for 20 ys is that it doesn't fit into your neat little package. That's the problem with generalizing and labeling. Yes food is addictive. We are all addicts to a mind altering substance. It just doesn't fit into the neat little moral and legal box that our current society has built.

  TimB
• 

  JerryTX

  Tim,

  You said:
  <<<you didn't identify and correct the real reason you couldn't control your eating. The ice cream was not and is not the problem. It's only the symptom.>>>>

  Ah, but I did. It was a simple diagnosis. Blues + self-medicate with ice cream/munchies = mega size dude. LOL. I agree with you that we're always trying to change our state. That's exactly what I was doing.

  You said:

  <<<<<<<<I have 2 friends who are "alcoholics" who enjoy an occasional beer and it does not destroy their lives. The evidence I see is not overwhelming>>>>>

  I agree there are exceptions to the rule, but the OVERWHELMING evidence backed up in scientific and medical literature is that alcholics cannot go back to drinking alcohol where it becomes just an occasional use for them. My alcoholic younger brother told me he could enjoy an occasional beer. It was a lie, as I found out later.
  That was just something he said, and he was drinking every morning, afternoon and night. I never ever never once saw him tipsy or slur his speech. Yet it ruined his life. It completely destroyed it.
  It was horrible to watch.

  You said:
  <<<<The problem you have with my calling myself an addict because I've been drinking for 20 ys is that it doesn't fit into your neat little package. That's the problem with generalizing and labeling.>>>

  Ah, no biggie, Tim. I just wouldn't classify you or myself as an addict because we've both been drinking for 20 years or more, especially when you say you haven't been drunk but three times. The only time I would use the word "addict" is whenever something is causing a negative effect in my life or someone else's.

  --------------------------------------

  "The truth will set you free--but first it will make you damn mad."

  M. Scott Peck - "The Different Drum"
• 

  teejay

  This relationship is about a difference of opinion about what they consider acceptable behavior in their relationship. If they can't compromise, or better yet, come to a mutual understanding of each other's wants and desires then the relationship will not be optimum. There is no such thing as a perfect relationship. It's about working with each other. It is not about putting labels on each other that act as wedges.

  Tim,

  Brilliant.

  It's hard to argue with the wisdom from a fellow Arkansawyer. I couldn't have said it better myself.