May you have peace!
I initially completed my response to you last evening; however, I was reluctant to post it because, to be honest, after watching your responses/comments deteriorate in their “goodwill,” I pretty much didn’t want to post anything at all. And because I didn’t have to, I chose to wait and mull it all over. As I may have said to you previously, it really does NOT matter to me whether you agree with me or not. You asked and, as you have stated, I was the only one who pretty even bothered to respond. And I only agreed to continue our discussion because of your request that we do so.
If you recall, I had asked to be done as I believed it was no longer of any benefit to either of us, and that request was granted. Now, here I am reading yet another post where you resort to childish and petty insults and insinuations… rather than continue with intelligent perspectives and a mutually respectful attitude when you either don’t understand the question… or don’t want to supply an accurate, and perhaps Bible supported, answer. I am sorry, but I won’t engage in such with you. I have SO much more to do with my time and in my life.
YOU asked questions… and, giving you the benefit of the doubt that you just MIGHT be able to have an interchange without resorting to the typical “demeaning” dialogue of most “religious” persons, I responded IN truth and WITH the truth, as I was directed BY the Truth, my Lord, the Holy One of Israel and the Son and Christ of God, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Holy Spirit.
I asked you to provide an explanation for several verses, including 2 Corinthians 3:17… which you have still failed to do, although standing fast on your “understanding” of the message of the Bible. As I said to you… so be it. That you now wish to respond with personal insults (while asking ME to be patient with YOU… and YOUR lack of reading comprehension and writing skills… which many WOULD stoop to insulting)… it is obvious to ME that you are not willing to proffer the same courtesy.
In that light, please know that this will be my last response to you on the matter. While I can and will excuse your lack of reading/writing skills, I perceive your insults as obvious intent to attack… rather than reason… when you and I don’t agree on an issue. This shows ME… that you are not who and what you think YOU are… for I cannot see the love of God and Christ in such comments. And that is the ONLY “sign” to ME… that I should continue with you at all.
So, again, believe what you will – I am not your master and you are not my sheep: to your own master you will stand… or fall. The following, then, is my final response to you… and for now, my peace remains.
This post addresses yours of 11-10-09. my words are in black, my previous comments are in blue and your words in red. Too many colors in here
That’s okay. We’ll muddle through. My responses will be in bold purple. And peace to you!
I can't demand that from my LORD because I know he is not a god neither he creates or produce gods.Assuming you got that belief from reading the Bible,…yeap… I would have to say that the Bible also states differently…nope,you want to add your own interpretation and meanings of some verses and some words so they can fit your “little gods” theology
Okay.
….Let me ask you, dear Javig, and you tell me please: what Greek word is used for "God" in the Bible? Say, at John 1:1? 2 Corinthians 4:4, John 20:28, John 10:34-36…it is the greek word which you already know “G2316: θεο´ς, theos”….how did the Bible translators... the "scribes"... know which "theos" is capitalized... and which is not?...i don’t know, do you? I cant answer for them. The only answer I could give is , If I was a scribe back then I would look at the context for help and pray to GOD. Also there is a difference between the GOD of the universe and the god of this world. Satan is an angel by nature but never a god. Like I told you before Paul use the word ‘theo” towards satan in a figurative sense, something you don’t seem to understand yet. I guess the scribes understood between a literal and figurative rendering of the word “theos”, just like Paul did.
Hmmmm… Now, me? I would be at least a little suspicious of ANYTHING written by the scribes (well, actually EVERYTHING written by ‘em), in light of my Lord’s words TO them: “WOE, to you… SCRIBES.” (Matthew 23:13, 14, 15, 23, 25, 27, 29) But, again, I’m just a servant. If YOU say the scribes understood between the two (though, how they did so without being guided by the Holy Spirit is a total mystery to ME)… well, then… okay. They knew which to use. Got it.
What I want know is the view of people in how they see jesus as a god instead of the GOD-MAN and how everything else fits in the equation. So far what I have though is being confirmed by you and others thoughts are totally new. I am sorry that my response... and the responses my Lord gave me which I shared with you... are not what you were expecting or used to hearing, dear Javig…I guess your lord is not that all knowing(omniscient) at all, because if he really knows my thoughts regarding jesus as a god, he should have known what i already know…But it is the truth…your truth not my LORD truth…. You asked if my Lord is a "god"... and I answered you truthfully: a "god"... is an immortal, whether such immortal be real... or imagined. Whether he/she/it be true... or false. I shared the view that I received from my Lord that he is immortal...my LORD is immortal but never a god but the GOD
Okay.
… that immortals are gods.. and thus he is a god….nope, angels and humans are inmmortals but not a god, immortality was granted to angel and human when they were created as a gift…
Okay. Though I must say I do think someone should tell the doctors, scientists, scholars, educators, theologists, and others who assume humans to be… well, “mere mortals” that they are, in fact, immortals. I mean, that IS one of the reasons there is such a thing as a MORTALITY rate, yes? But rather than assume, may I ask what, in your opinion, is IMmortality? And what is “MORrtality?”
Is he an imagined god? No… Is he a FALSE god? Absolutely not. Neither could EVER be the case…you got this one right…
Well, thank you! Glad to know I was able to post something you can agree with.
But he is not the MOST High God... JAH of Armies…this is one of the most common refusals statements of the Trinity. But an in depth study of the OT and NT reveals one GOD and Jesus claim to have co-equality with the Father
Co-equality as to all things with the exception of the MOST Holy One of Israel Himself, yes? I mean, he DID say, among other things, that “The Father is greater than I am,” yes? Oh, and he even called out to Him as HIS God, yes? As in, “Eli, Eli, lama sabathani” or “MY God, MY God… why have you forsaken me”? (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34)
and claimed to be GOD in flesh and demanded or commanded to receive the same equal honor that was only due to the Father.
I am sorry, but I cannot agree with that. I know that there are those who believe this to be the case… and perhaps even scribes who have “written” it so… but I haven’t seen it [in the Bible or elsewhere]… or heard of it from my Lord.
That’s a bold statement for a god to say, don’t you think? and it is heresy and blasphemy if someone claim to have equality with the Father
Equality as to all things except the Father… no. Not at all. And that IS what my Lord is recorded to have said… and what he has told me.
and it is a heresy for a jew to claim to be a god.
I am not sure this is accurate, given what THEIR own “Bible” states at Psalm 82:6; however, given that scripture, if they DID… they were wrong. Given that scripture. Right?
Want proof? read the Gospel of John. There you will find all the proof you need. I am not gonna tell you to ask your lord cause he might forget his own written word but instead asking him,
I have read John and I am familiar with what is written there. I would say to you, however, that, supposedly, it was also a transgression of the Law for my Lord to:
1. Touch a menstruating woman, otherwise he had to wash be considered “unclean” himself for seven days. (Leviticus 15:25-27) Yet, a woman with a flow of blood touched him. (Matthew 9:20)
2. Not stone an adulterer. (Leviticus 20:10; Deuteronomy 22:22; John 8:5) Yet, a woman actually caught in the act was brought to him… and not a stone did he hurl. (John 8:11)
3. Touch anyone “unclean” with leprosy. (Leviticus 13:1-14:47; Isaiah 52:11) Yet, not only did he touch a few lepers, he even dined with them. In particular, his dear friend Lazarus, a leper, whom he even resurrected. (Matthew 8:2, 3; 26:6; Mark 1:40, 41; John 11:1)
4. BE unclean with leprosy. Yet, he had leprosy. (Isaiah 53:4; John 18:6)
Etc., etc., etc.
C’mon, dear Javig… you’ll have to do better than that. The Jews (well, some of them) were trying to call it heresy because he called himself the SON of God, not “God.” They were trying to turn what he was saying… that he was God’s SON… INTO that he was saying he was God… which is a blasphemy… and which HE never said. However, YOU are saying it.
But to help you see what was actually recorded as having been said, the following is from the very gospel account YOU reference (John 10:31-33). I do not know what Bible version you used, but I checked a great many of them and they all seem to say the same thing (except the NWT, which says, “a god”), so you shouldn’t have a problem with, say, the RSV:
“The Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?" The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God."
Now, let’s stop here for just a second, because it seems to ME… from what I am reading… that they wanted to stone him NOT because HE said he was God… or even A god… but because THEY said that HE was saying he was God… or “a god” (depending on the Bible version you read). Either way. But the point is that they wanted to stone him NOT because HE said he was God but because THEY said that he was SAYING he was God… by saying he was God’s SON. You know, like you’re saying. Which is, per you, a heresy? (though, I believe they called it a blasphemy and, no, the two are not synonymous).
What I find quite interesting is that, while not taking issue with their LIE (because he NEVER said such a thing, that he was either God OR a god… which we will get to in a sec)… he, in fact, went on and made statement that YOU just said he WOULDN’T have made:
“Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in YOUR law, 'I [meaning God] said, you are gods'? If he [meaning God] called them gods to whom the word of God [meaning himself] came (and scripture cannot be broken), do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world [meaning himself], 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?”
You did mention earlier that you had a little difficulty with reading and writing, so I am compelled to help you out a bit here. HERE, my Lord is saying, “Isn’t it written in YOUR Bible, YOUR law… that GOD called those to whom I would come… gods? And since it’s scripture it MUST be true, because you can’t change scripture. So, how is it even GOD called such ones gods… but you are calling the very One that the Father sent TO such ones… such “gods”… a blasphemer when all HE said he is the SON of God?”
Now, be careful, here, please, dear Javig. Because if you didn’t get that from those verses… and somehow got something else… everyone here is going to know that you do in fact have a bit of a challenge with reading. Because it is VERY plain and clear, dear one. First, HE had NO problem with GOD calling certain humans “gods”… and told those who were seeking to stone HIM… that THEY pretty much shouldn’t EITHER… NOR should they have aproblem with the SON of God… calling himself the SON of God. But… NOWHERE… does my Lord call himself God… indeed, even refer to himself as God… or make an issue that others ARE called “gods.” He CALLED himself… the SON of God.
Thus, this particular account has absolutely NOTHING to do with showing your position. Perhaps, then, YOU should go back and re-read John’s account. Better yet, you might want to go back to whomever might have told you that it said what obviously THOUGHT it said… and have THEM read it again, too. Because somebody’s reading comprehension… either your’s or someone else’s… is pretty off, here.
how come he is telling you verbally he is a god when his disciple recorded something totally different?
John recorded here, dear one, that my Lord said he was the SON of God. They “twisted” him calling himself the SON of God… into him calling HIMSELF God. Which he did NOT do. And he IS the Son of God. But ALL of the sons of God… either ARE gods or will BE gods, dear Javig. That is what the Most Holy One of Israel… and the Psalmist who wrote the scripture that my Lord QUOTED here… MEANT.
I do read the word of GOD and speak to Him and I know if what he verbally tells me doesn't fit HIS written word something is wrong...where the Bible says that IT... is the Word of God. ANYWHERE. Please…first all the writer of the NT believe that the OT was the inspired word of GOD, even Jesus. Here is the answer “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 2 tim 3:16”
No, the writers of the NT (well, at least Paul) believed that “scripture” is inspired of God… and I ABSOLUTELY agree. But WHERE, dear one, does the Bible say that the OT… is “scripture”? It does not. Now, it is true that the Bible does tell you… in the NT… what IS “scripture.” And no, I am not going to give that particular “pearl” right now as I don’t believe you will get the SENSE of it anyway… even if you saw it in black and white.
But “scripture” is NOT “the OT”… nor it is “the NT.” Both the OT and the NT… CONTAIN “scripture,” yes. But they contain OTHER writings, writings that are NOT “scripture” as well. AND… there is “scripture” that is NOT contained in either the NT OR the OT.
But, okay. So, you read... and then speak to our Lord... and then he speaks to you... and you know if what he tells you doesn't fit with [His] written word... "something is wrong." Yes? Okay. May I ask you:At Matthew 7:1, Christ is recorded to have said: "Do not judge so that you will not be judged." However, at 1 Corinthians 5:9, 10... Paul states: "Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?" At another place Christ is recorded to have said: "But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren." However, at 1 Timothy 2:7 and 2 Timothy 1:11, Paul states that he... was APPOINTED as teacher:"For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth." "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher..."Given what you've stated above, then, you have vehemently rejected Paul's "appointment," yes?...nope that’s a false conclusion. I don’t have any reason to deny Paul’s appointment. Otherwise I will go against my LORD.
You have to, dear Javig, if what you say you believe is TRUE. Because there can’t be two truths. Either Paul was INSPIRED (since you believe that what he wrote is “scripture”)… and thus led by the Holy Spirit when he told the Corinthians to judge… AND when he told the Romans NOT to judge… or he was inspired in ONE instance, but not the other… or he was inspired in neither. If you say he was inspired during BOTH… then you’re saying the Holy Spirit was indecisive… or hypocritical… neither of which could possibly be true.
Paul was either right when he wrote to the Corinthians… or when he wrote to the Romans. But not both. So, which is it? Was Paul inspired when he told the Corinthians to judge… or was he inspired when he later told the Romans NOT to judge? Think carefully before you respond, because this is one of those issues that very well could evoke a very WTBTS response (“Well, Paul got some NEW light”)… which isn’t far from the truth… but either the old light is truth… or the new light is the truth… but not both. And since the Holy Spirit is the Spirit OF the Truth… he could only given Paul one of these “truths.” Yes?
His not speaking to me is somebody else
MayI ask you, dear Javig... WHO is it that you are speaking to? I don’t engage in conversation with that “somebody else” What is his/its NAME?...if the LORD is not speaking to me obviously is a unclean spirit and I don’t know he’s name and don’t care about his name. not interested in knowing unclean spirits names only the ones the bible speaks about.
Does that “somebody else” engage in conversation with YOU? I mean, THE BIBLE SAYS that even Satan disguises himself… as an angel of… light. So, how do YOU know it is indeed the “Lord” speaking to you? MANY people claim to speak with “the Lord,” and to hear him. How do you KNOW that your “Lord” is not the same “Lord” as, say, the Mormon Lord? Or the Catholic Lord? Or the Episcopalian Lord? The Baptist Lord? Maybe the Unitarian Lord? The Jesuit Lord? Or perhaps the Franciscan Lord? Maybe the Lutheran Lord? The Presbyterian Lord? Wait… we can’t forget the Pentecostal Lord… or the Apostolic Lord… or the African Methodist Lord… the COGIC Lord… the Acts Full Gospel Lord… the “Four Square” Lord… the Greek Orthodox Lord… the Russian Orthodox Lord… the Anglican Lord… the Dominican Lord… the Messianic Jewish Lord… or… the well, you get my drift.
WHICH “Lord”… is speaking to YOU? The same one that all of these claim is speaking to THEM? If he is the SAME one… then why are THEY all DIFFERENT? Many of these believe in the Trinity teaching. Why do they have different “Lords”? Because “Lord”… is a TITLE, dear Javig… not a name. And, it is worthy to note that it is those who CALL ON THE NAME of the Lord… who will be saved. (Joel 2:32; Romans 10:13) You can’t CALL on a name you DON’T KNOW, dear one.
And please… PLEASE do not tell me that the Son of God’s name is “Jesus.” Because he is neither English… American… or “western”… which the name “Jesus” is. It is the English rendering of the GREEK name “Iesous” which means “Jeh is Zeus.” The English name of the Son of God is “Joshua.” It is the true rendering of his HEBREW name… JahEshua (pronounced “Yah eShua”). Which means, “Jah Saves; Salvation of Jah.”
My LORD can't contradict Himself with is verbal and written words otherwise He will be a divine liar. As you see I do believe in the Infallible word of God, the Bible.
I absolutely agree with regard to the first part of your statement…youagree but how you know if the lord is telling you the truth if you don’t have a written evidence?
Because he SAYS he is? With his own VOICE? I mean, I SO don’t get this: you… and SO many like you CLAIM to put your faith in “the Bible.” Yet, the Bible SAYS… the sheep “LISTEN to his VOICE” and follow him because they “KNOW his VOICE.“ (John 10:3, 4, 27) Indeed, it says he CALLS them “BY NAME.” (John 10:3)
Now, I don’t now about YOU but MY name isn’t in the Bible. I haven’t read it ANYWHERE in there. And I don’t recall seeing, say, “Javig” in there, either. How, then, does he call his sheep… BY NAME… so that they HEAR him when he does and FOLLOW after HIM?
Last time I checked we humans tends to forget things and words. If you only based your faith in a verbal word of the lord how you know he is fooling you?
I could ask you the exact same question. MY answer is because he does NOT lie. EVERYTHING he has told me has been the truth… AND… he has shown me most of it IN the Bible AFTER he told it to me. Not ALL, of course, because, as he said to me, “All that I tell you is written but not all that is written is what I will tell you.” Thus, there are things in the Bible that are NOT true… and there is TRUTH that is contained in some writing that is NOT in the Bible. Like, perhaps, in the Book of Jashur. Or the scroll of Enoch. Perhaps in Thomas’ account. Or Barnabas’. Or Mary the Magdalene’s.
Regardless, even the BIBLE says that ALL of his words are truth. Indeed, he IS the Truth. And he has proven that to me… over and over again. Why in the WORLD would I doubt him? THAT… would be a total LACK… of FAITH. Wouldn’t it?
Instead I based my faith in two thing. First in my LORD’ verbal word. Second in my LORD written inspired WORD(bible, OT, NT, scriptures) Where you and I differ, however, is as to whether the Bible... is infallible OR God's written word…it is GOD’ written word and there is more than enough proof in scriptures. Do a research then share with me…
You have shown me such proof, yet. But I will share the following with you:
Sanctify them in the truth… John 17:17
I am the way, and the truth, and the life… John 14:6
So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood… Hebrews 13:12
thy word is truth… John 17:17
I am the way, and the truth, and the life… John 14:6
And the Word became flesh… John 1:14
you will knowthetruth… John 8:32
I am the way, and thetruth, and the life… John 14:6
And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent… John 17:3
and the truthwill make you free." John 8:32
I am the way, and the truth, and the life… John 14:6
So ifthe Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. John 8:36
1. Where is the Book of Jashar? Joshua 10:13; 2 Samuel 1:18…good question, don’t know the answer. Does it matter to you that much? Personally I don’t care about that book. If one day I decide to look for it it will be for historic research not for spiritual truths concerning GOD.
Your response is interesting, in light of the fact that it, the Book of Jashar, IS scripture:
“And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.” Joshua 10:13
“And David lamented with this lamentation over Saul and Jonathan his son, and he said it should be taught to the people of Judah; behold, it is written in the Book of Jashar.” 2 Samuel 1:17, 18
But, okay, if you only need PART of God’s “infallible word”. Me? I’d be concerned I was missing something. Like, perhaps, an entire book or letter. You know, that might actually say “the Bible ISN’T God’s Word, you people!” If I’m going to look to it as God’s word and a guide for ME to gain salvation… then I want ALL of it. Not what some scribes decided should and should not be there. But, that’s just me…
2. Where is the written prophesy of Enoch (which must have been written, in order for Jude to be able to refer to it)? Jude 14..again don’t know…may be in Jerusalem somewhere in a museum or a synagogue…I have a copy of the book that I found online and is pretty long but not sure if is the book of Enoch…I can send it to you if you want…
Ahhh, now you’re being snide and sarcastic… again… and there really is no need. You asked ME to be patient and kind in my responses to YOU… and I asked my question in ALL sincerity as well as responded to you kindly. I know how to use the Internet… and I have read the Book of Enoch. My question is why isn’t it in the Bible canon… which is, I believe, a legitimate question. Who decided it shouldn’t be? Obviously, JUDE thought it important enough to reference Enoch’s prophesy (which he apparently knew about) in HIS letter. I’m thinking if it was important enough for that… shouldn’t it have been included? Wouldn’t God have included it?
And please, PLEASE don’t tell me that “God decided to take it out,” because God had absolutely NOTHING to do with the compilation of the modern day Bible. THAT was the result of a commission by Constantine close to 300 after my Lord had come and gone from the physical realm… something you can research on the Internet, if you’ve a mind to.
3. Where is Paul's FIRST letter to the Corinthians? 1 Corinthians 5:9; 2 Corinthians 13:3…I asked the same question when I was studying 1 corinthians. And all the answer that I found didn’t caught my attention. May be it got lost or was not inspired as the other letters. Who knows? If you know send it.
Okay, so you’re willing to concede that MAYBE one of Paul’s three letters to that congregation wasn’t inspired. Why not TWO of them? Why not all three? Who DECIDED that two WERE “inspired”… and one WASN’T? Or, if, as you say, it got lost… why did God ALLOW that? If it is inspired, then it is scripture, right? And so SHOULD be in the Bible, according to your way of thinking, yes? But… it isn’t. Why IS that?
4. What is meant at Jeremiah 8:8, which states: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie."…it meant what clearly says. I think is a self explanatory verse.
Yes, it is self-explanatory. Unfortunately, however, I don’t think YOU understand what it’s explaining…
5. What is meant at John 5:39, 40, which states:"You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life." …again the text is self explanatory even the context teach us the real meaning of jesus warning to the Pharisees or jews
Okay, I get it: you don’t get it. No worries. We’ll move along…
6. If the Bible is the infallible word of God, meaning everything in it is TRUTH... which means nothing could have been changed:…you have to recognized there Is a difference between something that is truth, like the WORD OF GOD, and something that is changed from the truth.
Okay, now that really WAS a “WTBTS” kind of statement (“the Bible IS God’s word, Shelby, and it is infallible, which means it is the TRUTH and cannot be changed… except where something was changed… from the truth…”). Okay.
a. How do you explain all of the different versions, particularly where THEY disagree? Are we talking about the infallible word of GOD or bible translation?…two issues here and they are not the same…I have two answers to your question. 1) I don’t know where they all disagree. I have only read the JW version which denies the Divinity of Jesus. But they haven’t deny the personhood of the Holy Spirit yet but teach he is an impersonal active force. The few version that I have read, like Amplified bible, The message bible, KJV, NKJV, Reina Valera 1960, I found that they disagree in minor issues like words or location of the word in the sentence. If you want a depth analysis of this issue I don’t have one yet. Not interested in doing one soon. But I know teachers that have research this issues.
“they disagree in minor issues like words or location of the word in the sentence.” But how can that BE? IF they are ALL the word of God… and, thus, infallible… regardless of the version… how can they disagree… on ANYTHING????????????????? And how can those who believe it supports a Trinity teaching… disagree on other things? Where is the HOLY SPIRIT… and how can HE disagree with HIMSELF??? Is it not the Spirit that guided the original writers the SAME Spirit that SUPPOSEDLY guides the scribes/copyists? MUSTN’T IT BE? I mean, if what they wrote/translated/copied IS “scripture”?
If it is NOT the same Spirit then (1) how do you know what, if anything, has changed/not changed, and (2) how can it be SCRIPTURE?
And PLEASE don’t say that scholars agree nothing has changed… because we KNOW that the scholars do NOT agree. Indeed, the Masoretes disputed the translations of the Tannaim, Amoraim and other OT translators. There were even problems with the Septuagint and other “versions” of his time… in fulfillment of Jeremiah 8:8… which is why my Lord SAID, “WOE to you… scribes.”
But I can’t offered to you because you don’t accept and want to listen others peoples teachings, acting like is a sin to read, or listen others people teaching.
SHOULD I accept or want to listen to “peoples’” teachings? Really??? Why in the world would I want to do that… when I can listen to the Teacher himself? I mean, he is perfectly capable of explaining himself… as well as explaining the Father … to me AND you. (Matthew 11:27) Why in the WORLD would I go to other humans? To say, “Well, Javig, the Lord told me this… and revealed that. Tell me, though, what do YOU think: should I believe him?” Seriously??
2) let me answer your question with another question, you don’t believe the word of God as infallible because of so many translation or versions? If you do, that’s stupid, the value of something is not based on the translation or version is based on the originator. In this case the Bible, scripture, the word of God was originated by GOD himself.
First, you are in error. I don’t believe the Bible to BE the word of God. I believe CHRIST to be the Word of God… just as the Bible SAYS. (John 1:1, 14; Revelation 19:13) I mean, at least I believe the Bible in that regard. YOU don’t.
Second, the BIBLE was not originated by God. Yes, scripture was originated by God; the Bible, however, is not scripture. And you cannot SHOW me… IN THE BIBLE… where it says it IS.
Dear Javig (or whoever you are at this point, because I don’t believe you are responding on your own), you only believe that the BIBLE is the word of God because HUMANS have told you that. GOD did not tell you that. CHRIST did not tell you that. And the BIBLE does not tell you that.
In the Bible GOD said, “This is my son… listen to HIM.”
In the Bible CHRIST said, “Come to ME,” and “My sheep KNOW MY VOICE.”
The BIBLE says, “The WORD… became FLESH.”
The BIBLE says, “… the name by which he is called is The Word of God.”
I mean, it’s IN the Bible, yes?… the very book YOU call the “infallible word of God”? Now YOU are the one who is touting it as being infallible. Why, then, I ask YOU… don’t YOU heed what IT says? I mean, true, I don’t believe it to be the word of God, but at least I DO agree with what it says as to what and whom God’s word IS. IT says that the Word of God is the Son of God… Christ.
I mean, I would think that the least YOU would do is go with what the very “word” YOU claim to be God’s… AND infallible… SAYS. Yes? I’m just sayin’…
b. What was the point in including the following words at the end of the Revelation, IF the words could NOT be changed:
"... every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."…someone in church asked me the same question. Again the verse is self explanatory, however people have misapplied. Because of that I have to explain this verse to you…first, john is not talking about bible translations or versions. He is talking about someone adding or taking away the words of the prophecy, if someone adds or takes away a word, the whole prophecy will be wrong, giving you the wrong message and view of GOD. Since I do believe in this verse as a warning for myself I learned to applied to all scriptures in the bible. An example of this adding or taking away will be like JW WT and you in prophesying that Jesus is a god.
Yes. I understand that John is only speaking of that particular prophesy (versus the entire Bible). My POINT… is that THAT prophecy… is in the Bible… which YOU consider to be God’s infallible word… and, thus, scripture… which YOU believe has not been tampered with, indeed cannot BE tampered with… and so I was just wondering why even INCLUDE a warning AGAINST tampering (i.e., adding to/taking away… which would change things)… if it couldn’t be DONE? Kind of an empty warning, isn’t it? And if the warning ISN’T empty… meaning someone COULD add to or take away from the prophecy… how do YOU know that they HAVEN’T done so… that what’s there is EXACTLY what John saw/heard and absolutely NOTHING has been changed? How do YOU know?
But… nevermind. Really. I “get” it: you only know something if “the Bible says.” So, if, for example, someone DID change the prophecy… you would accept the change as “truth”… because it would be in the Bible. I get it.
Of course there is secondary issues that we can disagree and debate with out hatred but share. But the main and plain things is perfectly written for us...example...GOD s nature...This, again, is another area where you and I disagree. You look to a book, the Bible, to "see" God's nature. I look to Christ. Since the Bible tells us about HIM...and since HE is the image of God... and since HE is recorded to have said, "If you see ME, you see GOD"... I have learned to skip a step. Meaning, I can read a book that tells me about One I should look to/at... OR... I can just look to/at the One it [the Bible] tells me to. Since life is short and I don't have a lot of time anyway... I think the latter is, well, wiser…too bad if you learned to skip a step. The bible never tells us to skip a step.
It does. I posted it for you (John 5:39, 40):
“You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.”
Or what about:
"If any one thirst, let him come to me and drink.” (John 7:37)
Or…
“Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” (Matthew 11:28, 29)
I don’t see anywhere in ANY of these verses where my Lord is recorded to have said, “Go to the scriptures that you may have life.” Or “If anyone thirst, let him read the scriptures.” Or “Go the scriptures… and learn from them.”
The “scriptures” OR “the Bible.” He said… come to HIM. Not that you’ll get the sense of this truth… but there is always hope…
The bible point to Jesus but Jesus couldn’t show us everything about GOD nature during his life.
I’m sorry… let me get this straight: the very person who you say IS God… could not SHOW us everything about God’s nature? The One who said, “You see me and you see God?” Does that make sense to YOU??
From Genesis to Revelation we have a fear revelation about God nature. I said fear because that’s all that God revealed to us if He want to reveal more it doesn’t bother me. However he can’t reveal something to you totally different than what is written for us by HIM.
I do not know what you’re meaning in the first part of your statement. I have NO fear of God… or of revelation ABOUT God. At all. In any way. Because through Christ… God, who IS love… has taught ME love. And there is NO fear in love…
“but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love.” 1 John 4:18
I am sorry that you still exist in fear, dear Javig, but it does not have to be that way. You COULD learn from my Lord. He would teach you love as you have never known it before… PERFECT love… and your fear would be gone. I mean, I’m just sayin’…
I do agree with the second part of your statement, however… IF what is written WAS, in fact, written… BY Him (or directed to by Him to be written). However, He CAN show us something different… if what is written WASN’T written (or directed to be written) by Him. Right?
Like you had been saying “jesus is a god”. Also by having a personal relationship with Jesus all what the bible says about him comes more real to us.
I have to disagree. By having a PERSONAL relationship with him… what the Bible says ABOUT him becomes irrelevant. Totally irrelevant. It would be like me getting to know you personally, and then, rather than spending time with you, speaking with you, listening to YOU… I go and read a book some folks have written about you. True, it could be that your dad asked them to write it but it STILL won’t come close to what I could learn about you… FROM you.
Haven't said this. I have been reading discreetly and discerning every word you posted in here since 10-26-09 and on. Pretty soon I will come up with a conclusion and your will be the only one to correct me of my conclusion because is based in everything you have said. Since you proclaim most of your words comes from the LORD himself we will see who is lying...you or your LORD or both...May I ask you to do one more thing, please? Go to God, the MOST Holy One of Israel... through Christ. Ask Him to send you His Truth. Tell Him that you want to KNOW Him... and His Truth. Then... if you can... put faith in what you hear... and see... as a result. I am not asking you to do anything difficult. Indeed, it is what you SHOULD do... even if I hadn't asked…well I already did,
But you didn’t when I asked it of you THIS time, right? Why not? (Please note, I read further down and because some of your responses have gotten somewhat snipier and more sarcastic, I have chosen to skip over those. If, in the future, you do want a response from me… and I am inclined to respond… I suggest that you let a little more of the “christ” you claim to know come out… and tuck that “devil” back in where he belongs. I am a slave of Christ, dear Javig, and I will not fight with you. I will pose my questions and respond to yours but I will not engage in childish, unkind, and unloving dialogue with you. So… you choose.
He told me to read his written word and I did. Also I asked Him to illuminate me and He did, I asked Him to guide me and He did. i asked Him to show me and He did. Now im telling you what he told me..is your decision to put faith in what he told me to tell you…now I am asking you… to ask him… to show you where in his written word Jesus is portrait as a god by his prophets and apostles?
I tried to show you. You refuse to accept the truth of this matter. I showed you the Greek words… which are all the same word: “theos.” With a lower case “t”. Now, you show ME, please… how it is that the word “theos” is any different or distinct from one another in ANY of the places where it appears. You show ME how it is that the scribes KNEW that “theos” here meant “god” and “theos” there meant “God.”
also I am using the bible as my proof guide to make my conclusion since is the only proof that I have from the LORD himself concerning Himself...I used to think it was the only proof, too… too bad if came to your conclusion read psalms 119 and get back to basics…. Until my Lord asked me, and now I ask you: what proof did the disciples have that the One who came to them and said, "Follow me," is the same one that the Bible prophesied about?..tell your lord not to confused you and recommend him to take some ginkoba pills for his memory…here is the answer coming from himself…Luke 24:13-27.
Your [lack of] “love” is showing again. And I must say that I find it quite interesting. Again, it smacks of the WTBTS… and like religions… whose “love” is limited to those who agree with them. Those who think and believe as they do… and who constitute all others a “enemies.”
As for Luke 24:13-27… this refers to my Lord AFTER his resurrection. Of course, they knew who he was THEN: they had spent SOME time with him before that. I am speaking of when he FIRST called them, dear Javig. BEFORE they got to know him. But, of course, you knew that… didn’t you?
What had he done/said to lead them to that conclusion?...John the baptism gave testimony about Jesus and everybody in town was familiar with his sayings and with the OT. Read Luke 7:18-27, John 1, How about the Samaritan woman at the well? Did these go, check their Bibles, then come back and say, "Yep, it's you, alright?" OR... did they simply put faith in what he TOLD them?....again people were familiar with the OT and the prophecies concerning Jesus. John 4:26 clearly shows that the Samaritan woman knew the prophecies about Jesus and he confirmed in verse 27. need more proof?
Okay, so she’s at the well and some man comes up and says, “I’m the guy the prophecies spoke about.” So what? What Bible did she go and check to make sure if the guy was telling the truth? None. I think you’ve forgotten what this discussion was about. YOU said everyone needs the Bible as PROOF that he was the one. I asked YOU… in essence… what BIBLE did these go a refer to when he came and called THEM? You puerile answer shows that you only know how to parrot what your leaders have taught you. Perhaps if you weren’t so eager to ridicule… you could stay on track. If you’re going to take on discussions of this length, please… try to stay focused… and stick to the subject.
i am doing all this to find the answer to my question...is jesus a god? So far you have said yes and gave your explanation and reasons...I am also trying to answer the question but my brain could go so far as well as the written word...in other words I get stuck.You make me smile, a big warm smile, dear Javig! I know EXACTLY what you mean and how you feel! I was like you!! How can you KNOW??? All these Bible versions, and all of these teachings, interpretations, beliefs, doctrines, religions, creeds... WHAT AM I TO BELIEVE??? WHAT IS THE TRUTH??? And so... I went directly to the Source. Cut out ALL of the middlemen. Every last one of them. I asked God to send me HIS truth... and He sent His Son. The rest... is history. I have listened ONLY to him since...i don’t worry about bible version/translation at all, that’s the least of my worries. I know the truth, Jesus. Like I said I am looking for all answers about jesus being a god. I know for a fact that Jesus is not a god but the GOD-MAN.
If you KNOW… then why did you ASK? You invited discussion… and you got it. Kindly and thoroughly. No mud-slinging. No ridiculing. No slights. You were entirely welcome to agree… or disagree. Indeed, I wrote at one point we were at a place where we needed to agree to disagree. YOU asked to continue… and I agreed. Only to have you now “speak” to me in a mean-spirited kind of way. Which, again, leads me to believe that perhaps you are not responding alone… that someone is “helping” you… someone who has not read the entire exchange and thus did not know that you APOLOGIZED for such slights, ASKED me to continue and respond, and asked ME to be patient with YOU.
All of which is very deceitful… and deceit, dear Javig… does NOT originate with God… or with Christ… but with Satan. I should ask you, therefore, to take care that YOU don’t actually let your heart cause YOU to blaspheme.
Col 1:9-10 "For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God"Unfortunately, I am not satisfied with that. For ME, I needed to go BEYOND increasing in the "knowledge of God." I need to increase in KNOWING God... and I can ONLY do that through KNOWING Christ. The Bible can tell me about him... but only to a degree. He can tell about himself to the fullest extent. I choose the latter….the text doesn’t said to go “beyond increasing” in the knowledge of God. It says that you might me fill not overfill. And yes you can only do that by Christ
Okay, you entirely didn’t get what I said… so I am just going to chalk that up to your challenges with reading… as you stated…
exactly Jesus is the WORD of GOD in flesh that's why HIS written word can't contradict Himself and that's why I go in prayer to him as well his written word. Okay, dear Javig. But please note that the Bible says, "And the Word became flesh." It does NOT say, "And the Word became flesh... and was written."…yeah your point is?
My point is that the Bible says, "And the Word became flesh" and does NOT say, "And the Word was written”… or “And the Word became flesh... and was written."
Also, may I ask: If you go to him... why do you need to ALSO go to anything/one else? Does he himself not answer you? If not, why not? If so, can you not put faith in his answers? If not, why not? And if it is indeed him speaking, why do you need a "second" witness?...let me ask you…by me using the bible is that a second witness?
Yes, dear one. That is what a “second witness” is: when either can’t just go with… or can’t put faith in… the first… and so need a backup. A second.
It mite seems but really HIS written words are the same as His verbal words. The bible portrait a loving Jesus and when he consoles me that proof he is love and have love towards me. GOD and his written word speak the same message. And what is wrong to go back or reference or believe in the bible?
I get that they are one and the same for YOU. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, dear one… for YOU. You are yet a babe and as such still need milk. There’s nothing wrong with that and I bid you the greatest of peace in your “feeding.” You should keep in mind, though, that you are not able to SHARE anything other than milk, either. Elementary things. YOU… need to get THAT.
Proverbs 8:4-9...I love that verse but I don't think in any sense its talking about Jesus is talking about wisdom...And who is Wisdom? I will tell you: it is Christ. He is the Way, the Truth, the Life, the Tree of Life, the True Vine, the Root of Jesse, Wisdom, the Word, the Son, the Holy Spirit. It is, isn't it, HIM... that the scripture "bear witness" to, yes? John 5:40…nope Christ is not Wisdom, Christ has all the wisdom there is. I have a car(acura) does that make me an acura? No. you want to believe that Jesus is Wisdom in Prov 8 then two question for you, 1) you used to be a Jw? Because they too think jesus is wisdom in prov 8…
He is indeed Wisdom. And no, of course, having an Acura doesn’t make you an Acura. Yes, I used to be a JW… and perhaps they have this understanding correct. ALL religions have SOME truth in them. That’s how they attract the seed… who are the “children” of light. If EVERYTHING they taught was a false… the seed wouldn’t be attracted.
2) if jesus is wisdom is prov 8 then we must call jesus our sister according to prov 7:42 right?...
I wouldn’t agree, but I am assuming you believe this because Wisdom appears to be an entity of… ummmm… femininity, yes? Did you know that Satan is, too? Which is why the Latin/Spanish refer to him as “Satana”? The “a” denotes the feminine. But there is a reason for this: ALL spirit beings are both male and female. They are not like us where the male is separate from the female. And before you go pulling you hair out, I have a couple/few questions for YOU that might help you grasp this truth:
1. Where did EVE come from? Did she not come OUT of Adham? How can that be if Adham was ALL male? Apparently, at least ONE of his ribs has SOME essence of female in it, yes?
2. If the female DIDN’T come out of Adham, why didn’t God just create Eve from the dust, as He did Adham… as opposed to using a part FROM Adham… TO create her?
3. When it says “In God’s image He created them; male AND female He created THEM”… after whose image was the FEMALE, Eve, made? If there was only male, whose image was used for the female?
I would venture to say that YOU are the one who knows neither God… nor the nature of God. Obviously, you don’t know the nature of Christ.
have you read proverbs at all? The whole book talks about wisdom, not jesus. And the first ten chapters are like a strong doss of wisdom and God portraits wisdom to us a woman. Proverbs 30:4 give us a reference about Jesus
Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,
If you know?
I have read it and MOST of the book speaks about Christ, who is Wisdom. That it is ABOUT him is the POINT of the culmination in Chapter 30. He SAYS… the scriptures BEAR WITNESS TO HIM. But, again, I totally understand that you don’t get that.
I wanted to ask you since you mentioned that verse...you said Jesus was produced according to Prov 8...tell me how you came to that conclusion?Well, primarily, because he told me this truth Unlike the angels and physical realm, my Lord was not created. To be created, something comes from nothing. He, however, was born. He is the Son of God's love. Thus, he came... from SOMETHING. He "came forth"... from the Father. The words "came forth" mean the same as the word "produced." The vegetation came forth from the land. The land... produced the vegetation…sooo you are saying now that Jesus a god came forth of the GOD? In other words a god came out from the Father? That’s blasphemy dear one.
I am going to proceed with more caution with you from this point, dear Javig, because it is you who blaspheme. My Lord did indeed come forth from the Father. That is why he is the firstBORN OF all creation. (Colossians 1:15) HE… was not created. HE… was born… PRODUCED… the as a result of God’s love. But I get it that you can’t comprehend that truth, either.
Now, I don’t know what YOU believe to be blasphemy, but I know it to be (1) blaming the Holy Spirit for something he has NOT done, (2) NOT giving that Spirit the credit for something he HAS done, or (3) trying to deceive that Spirit. What I shared with you is truth and I spoke it to you just as I received it FROM the Truth, the Holy Spirit, my Lord JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Holy One of Israel, and Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. I must now ask you to take care. You don’t know what you’re saying, obviously. Again, you are going by what HUMANS have taught you… and are at risk of committing a grave error. Please, take care.
Jesus did not come out or came forth from the Father. He was sent by the Father.
You are correct as to your second statement, and incorrect as to your first. John 13:3 states:
“Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going to God…”
The Greek actually states “come forth.” The Greek word, exerchomai , is stated twice, for emphasis (i.e., for “come” and for “forth”). The following are the definitions. Please note the underlined:
1) to go or come forth of
a) with mention of the place out of which one goes, or the point from which he departs
1) of those who leave a place of their own accord
2) of those who are expelled or cast out
2) metaph.
a) to go out of an assembly, i.e. forsake it
b)to come forth from physically, arise from, to be born of
c) to go forth from one's power, escape from it in safety
d) to come forth (from privacy) into the world, before the public, (of those who by novelty of opinion attract attention)
e) of things
1) of reports, rumors, messages, precepts
2) to be made known, declared
3) to be spread, to be proclaimed
4) to come forth
a) emitted as from the heart or the mouth
b)to flow forth from the body
c)to emanate, issue
1) used of a sudden flash of lightning
2) used of a thing vanishing
3) used of a hope which has disappeared
Jesus eternally existed just like the Father eternally existed.
I’m sorry, but that is not true.
Neither of them were created or come forth.
Indeed, my Lord did. A study of the Greek etymology might help you grasp this truth. However, there IS an easier way – go straight to the Source… the One about whom we’re having this discussion.
Your interpretation doesn’t explain how the Father came to be? Since something has to come out of something right?
The Father did not come to be, dear Javig. He was not born, produced, or created.
what is meant by John's words as recorded at 1 John2:26, 27?"I write this to you about those who would deceive you; but the anointing which you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that any one should teach you; as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie, just as it has taught you, abide in him."…again the verse is self explanatory once we read the context. I think you know the context. But le me said this, John is not talking about bible and version/translations at all
I’m not even going to respond, other than to say that I believe you need to read my response (and perhaps what prompted it)… again.
May I ask you: why didn't John say, "his anointing and the Bible teaches you about everything"?.... He did not say the “bible” but neither is not saying not to read scriptures. You seem to have a problem believing or reading or relying in the bible? Why? Bad experiences?
Not at all. I’ve just been moved past that pedagogue… beyond the “tutor” that LEADS to Christ:
“Therefore the Law has become our tutor {to lead us} to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.” (Galatians 3:24, 25)
By means of my FAITH, dear Javig… I have FOUND Christ… or rather, I have been found BY him. So, I no longer NEED the tutor that LEADS to him (the Bible that contains the Law). That’s all. Nothing more. I am VERY sorry that that has not been YOUR experience yet, truly.
you see Jesus is THE LEADER and because HE has establish leaders here in earth for the benefit of the church Please... PLEASE... show me where he did this. Please…here is the answer “
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;Eph 4:10-13
I agree as to the apostles and prophets. My Lord himself spoke of these. But others were, I believe, added. Why? Because Christ did not give ANY as pastors (leaders) or teachers (rabbis). Indeed, HE is recorded to have said just the OPPOSITE… that we are NOT to be such. So, now, we have a choice: put faith in what PAUL… who at times disagreed with the apostles, the congregations, etc., is recorded to have said… or put faith in what CHRIST is recorded to have said.
Now, if you can’t see your way to move past Paul (or whoever’s) writings… where such contradict what CHRIST is recorded to have said… well, then, so be it. Believe what you will. MY faith, however, is in Christ, not Paul. Thus, I will follow the Lamb. Wherever HE goes.
And in the matter that we are discussing – what I know and how I know it – I believe he “went” with John… who said, the anointing IN me would teach me so that I do not need ANY to be teaching me. Because… this has proven to be the TRUTH. It is through that “anointing”… with God’s blood, holy spirit… that the Spirit speaks to ME… and leads ME. Not an apostle. Not a pastor. Not a teacher. But that’s me. You’ve got to follow whoever it is that YOU need to follow.
Please note, the “ministry” of the Apostles was NOT to teach anyone ANYTHING… other than what Christ commanded (to love God, love neighbor, love enemies, love one another, wash one another’s feet, eat his flesh/drink his blood, do not judge anyone but forgive and release everyone, be merciful to and have pity and compassion for everyone, etc.). Other than that, they were to go to those Christ sent them… and baptize them… in water, holy spirit, or both… if they needed it (Acts 6:6; 8:14-17, 37; 10:47; 11:17; 13:3; 19:6). That SPIRIT would then send them out, teach them, etc. (John 14:26; John 16:13; Acts 13:4; Hebrews 8:10, 11)
There WERE those who were assigned to look after God's flock... as to their PHYSICAL BODIES. These were to make sure that everyone ate, that the widows and orphans were looked after, and that when those who had gave, it was distributed properly and equally to those in need. They were called "overseers" (episkopos)... and their task was to oversee... the DISTRIBUTION OF FOOD, CLOTHING, MONEY, and other 'world' goods that was to be given to the poor among them. Acts 4:32-35; 6:1-6; Genesis 41:34; Acts 20:28; 1 Timothy 3:1, 2; 1 Peter 2:25 These are "hired men" whose job it is to look after the SOULS (meaning the LIVING BODIES)... and NOT the FAITH... of God's sheep. 1 Corinthians 1:24 The FAITH of the sheep... is the responsibility of the GOOD Shepherd... of which there is only one. Christ. John 10:11-14…I don’t deny that Jesus is the Shepherd (Psalms 23). I don’t deny that these overseers were given the task to distribute food (Acts 6:1-6). If these overseers were only to distribute food then why Paul commanded a godly character from them? Do you have to be a godly men to distribute food? A delivery person should be enough.
Well, first, there was much more to distribute than food. People gave goods and money. (Acts 4:32-37) The apostles only referred to the food as rhetoric. A delivery person would not have been enough, however, even if it were only food, for at least three reasons:
1. Some of the widows were apparently being overlooked and not getting their fair share of the things to be distributed. (Acts 6:1)
2. Given the deceit shown by Ananias, there was not only the risk of dishonesty but also of blasphemy against the holy spirit they had received. (Acts 5:1-4)
3. Apparently, wicked men were being revealed among them and some of those receiving distributions were widows and/or elderly. Given the Pharisees practice of “devouring” widows’ houses (i.e., talking them out of their widows’ allowance and/or other income), they needed to make sure that this didn’t occur.
Thus, in order to ensure that the distribution was done HONESTLY… and in a manner that glorified God… rather than caused divisions and/or brought reproach… godly men were indeed required.
Is obvious that these overseers were not only to distribute food but to distribute spiritual food also. As you point in Acts 6:1-6, those overseers were powerful preachers of the gospel, distributing good food to needy souls. Read the whole chapter 6 thru 8. you will see that they were more than merely delivery mens.
I think you should re-read it. I don’t know what “powerful” preachers YOU are speaking about but truly, it really was only about the distribution. They were to watch over the BODIES (or souls, per some Bibles) of the people… not their SOULS (or spirits, per some Bibles). They were to make sure the congregation was taken care of as their materials needs. Their SPIRITUAL needs… were handled by Christ, the HOLY SPIRIT… THROUGH THEIR ANOINTING.
my duty is to see those leaders as leaders but never as the leader, that title belong to JESUS...And MY duty is to see those leaders... NOT as leaders... but as men who may be tasked with keeping a watch over my physical life... but NEVER my spirit life….do you think a believer is going to take care of your physical need and ignore your spiritual needs? Will be ungodly for a believer if he only meets your physical needs when you also have spiritual needs.
If I am joined to Christ… by means of an anointing with holy spirit… what can another HUMAN do for my SPIRITUAL needs?
The contrary is truth too. Will be ungodly for a believer if he only meet your spiritual needs but not your physical need. That’s the message James gave in James 2:14-17 and 5:7-20.
No, James was not speaking of spiritual needs at all. He was saying that how can you say you have faith and/or love God… if you can’t/don’t/won’t take care of someone in physical need when you have the means to do so? They didn’t HAVE any “spiritual” needs – they had received HOLY SPIRIT! To suggest that they still had “spiritual” needs would suggest that that spirit… was deficient! That cannot be! If God and Christ couldn’t take care of them SPIRITUALLY… by means of HOLY SPIRIT… how in the WORLD was some imperfect, sinful HUMAN going to do it? C’mon, now…
You also practice Mathew 18:15-17...tell me by you practicing those verses you are not implying that we have to keep an eye or watch or take care one another spiritual, right? I though so…
I am not implying that at all. Matthew 18:15-17 is not about taking care of one another, but about how we go about handling sins IF we indeed NEED to. I say NEED to because my Lord said IF your brother sins against you… you should FORGIVE him. Some sins, however, require intervention. For example, let’s say there is someone who is acting “inappropriately” toward, say, another’s spouse… or child. And I notice it. IF I need to say something (and certainly, if a child is involved, I do!)… then I go and say it between me and the person alone (“Hey, Jim, perhaps you don’t mean it to LOOK that way, but I don’t think the way you touched little Sam was appropriate.”) Now, if Jim hears me and ceases, cool. If not… and/or he touches little Sam again, then I take one or two others with me and approach the matter. If Jim listens now, great. If not, WE bring the matter to the entire CONGREGATION… and AS A GROUP. And, AS A GROUP… the decision is made as to whether “Jim” now becomes like one the nations to us.
If not, the matter is over. If so, then we don’t partake with Jim, because he has not scrutinized himself. We don’t shun him or kick him out, per se, because we even owe the nations our love. We are not unkind or unloving to him… but we don’t hang out with him so that he gets the impression everything is A-OK.
But the sin… is a sin of the FLESH. If he commits a sin of the SPIRIT… there isn’t anything WE can do for him. Indeed, whatever holy spirit he may have received may in fact be removed (which would be evident, of course).
We can and should, of course, encourage ANYONE who needs it. As to their faith, their hope, whatever. But that doesn’t take a teacher. Or an apostle. Or a leader. ANY of us… by mean of the holy spirit that is in US… should be able to do that. Indeed, every single one of us SHOULD do that…because we are ALL qualified… IF we have actually received holy spirit. (Matthew 23:11)
Of course Jesus is the only one that could supply all of our spiritual and physical needs but remember he could do that thru earthly vessels.
Perhaps the “Jesus” YOU know and worship would NEED to do it that way. The Holy One of Israel that I know… my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel… is a very capable shepherd. He can… and DOES… lead HIS sheep all on his own. That’s why HE calls HIS sheep… BY NAME… and HIS sheep HEAR his voice… and follow HIM… versus following strangers… like you, perhaps… who’s voice they do NOT recognize. Because they ARE the voices of strangers. (John 10:1-5, 7-9, 27)
if I copy and paste anyones doctrine I will make sure their doctrine goes hand in hand with scripture...But, see, that is a bit of a problem for me, dear Javig. In my view, you are merely parroting what someone else has TOLD you to believe…let me ask you, you know what you know everything about God because he has told you everything about himself? I doubt that because you also read scriptures and adhere to it ad you cant deny that fact, your action speaks louder that your words… Which is the same as the WTBTS. Any JW can do what you are doing: cut and paste information from WT articles. Their Bible version comports with their teachings. As does the KJV for those who use it. And the RSV for those who use it. And the Douay for those who use it. Etc., etc., etc…well I haven’t said which bible version is the best of all, none of them are, that’s why they are call versions or translation. I don’t adhere to any version or translation of the bible only to the context of the whole bible. The context is better than trusting the translation or versions.
I totally agree; however, the translation (which may or may not be accurate) would lend a LOT toward the context being accurate… or not. Wouldn’t you agree?
I would MUCH rather you state what YOU believe... and include the scriptures/verses that you believe support YOUR beliefs. NOT cut and paste someone else's beliefs... even if those comport with the scriptures from the Bible version you choose to use…I myself practice that...like I told you before. I only cut and paste what its biblical not merely personal interpretation.
While I totally understand that not everyone can do this (and the lack of holy spirit lend a lot toward this), I can articulate what I know and believe… with my Lord’s help. As a result, I don’t need anyone else’s rhetoric or propaganda to do it. Been tbere, done that. I know who it is that speaks to me. If others can’t “receive” that truth, no worries - I truly understand that. (John 14:17)
Hope everything I said answers your questions…thanks for waiting…later
You are quite welcome, dear Javig. I have only one question to ask you and that is to respond to my question as to 2 Corinthians 3:17. Other than that, I ask that we be done with this now as, again, I believe we just need to agree to disagree. I truly don’t see anything changing on your end in the near future and I am positive that I will not come over to your way of thinking. I say this because I know what my Lord has told me and showed me as to every one of these matters, and because I have been where you are. All through it. My extended family is NOT JW… but devout Lutheran and I was confirmed and raised on the Nicene Creed. I understood as you do and gave most, if not all, of the same arguments you have.
And then my Lord himself came to me. May he do the same for you, if you truly wish it.
My peace remains.
A slave of Christ,
SA
