NOW how do you view the Future?

by theMadJW 149 Replies latest jw friends

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  GLTirebiter

  Uncountable TRILLIONS of cells forming elaborate SYSTEMS that work TOGETHER performing timed FUNCTIONS in concert screams design

  Yes, but design is not limited solely to the construction details of every particle forming every atom in every protein of every cell forming every creature. The true glory of the universe's creation is the system causing all things, "seen and unseen," to be waht they are. The Creator did not just make a design, did not merely implement a design. The essence of the Genesis moment (aka "Big Bang") is God being the design: the Word, bringing forth at the first moment of time, at the first point of space, the entire universe of matter, energy, space and time that we are part of and are privileged to be dimly aware of.

  I see the "creation vs. science" brouhaha as false dichotomy. Those who see only one side are missing part of the mazing fact of our existence. If you would know God, appreciate all the works of creation; if you would know the wonders of the physical world, do not belittle their source. Melded together, these things let us to see our place in the majesty of existence, and to appreciate the privilege of being aware of it in our limited, human way.
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  The Oracle

  I agree. The evidence of design is all around us.

  For all you doubters out there, please review the compelling evidence of God's cool designs.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcrq5OOkQdk

  The Oracle
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  dinah

  Casting aside what little you learned about God and Christ- are you thrilled with the future of Mankind?

  I must admit I didnt read the thread.

  Am I thrilled? Nope.

  What little I learned about Christ? What makes you think I learned a little? What makes you think you are following him. Read your damn bible, moron.

  If you would read it ALONE, you would see that Christ never asked for a GB or anything. Love your damn neighbor. Is that hard? Well, yeah. The GB (who seems to have taken Christ's place) Do not judge until you are prepared to be judged. In other words walk a few miles in someone's moccasions and STFU.

  Self-righteous bastard that you are, what would you have me do? Go back to lies?
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  theMadJW

  Again, science refers to the brain as "the MOST COMPLEX MECHANISM in the UNIVERSE".

  The internet spaning the world thru satellite, computers software and wires is a tinkertoy compared to one brain- and that is exaggerating the complexity of the Web.

  Do you REALLY think that Miss Natural Selection designed and aorganized those millions of neurons, then decided that they would hook to to, monitor, and control in concert the different systems and organs?

  But OF COURSE you do; you really CAN'T think for yourselves...
• 

  theMadJW

  Outstanding GL
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  Do you have to be a scientist to believe things firmly? What about a religious person?

  In matters of religion, faith patches over holes in the logic of cherished beliefs.

  In science, one works hard to avoid holding cherished beliefs so as to keep bias from corrupting judgment. (Hence, double blind tests.) Questioning and critical thinking are used to SEEK holes in theories and expose them. Science, therefore, is a search for truth without bias. It welcomes evidence (not conjecture) for anything that might disprove a theory.

  As far as your "firm believer" comment, I think you're exaggerating in an attempt to win points for a deconversion.

  Just how many facts does one need to know to be convinced of ANYTHING?

  For a JW, you only need one fact: the fact that the WTBTS puts something in print. That makes it "truth."

  For those who don't rely on the GB to think for them, though, it takes much more than that. A good rule of thumb I agree with is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you tell me you ate a ham sandwich for lunch today, I have no reason to question you. There's nothing extraordinary about that. But if you tell me you witnessed a bald eagle swoop down and snatch a full grown man and carry him up into the clouds, I'd be highly skeptical. I would not believe you until you provided some hard evidence.

  Uncountable TRILLIONS of cells forming elaborate SYSTEMS that work TOGETHER performing timed FUNCTIONS in concert screams design- if you want to attribute it to chance ...'Natural Selection' be my guest...but if you are as intelligent as I THINK you are, you know better- wether you admit it or not.

  I already told you I'm not ruling out intelligent design as a possibility. But I've suspended judgment in either direction until I've done adequate research on the evolution front. Why? A couple of reasons: 1) I recognize that I've always had a preconceived opinion on evolution and 2) I'm not so arrogant as to think I'm smarter than the scientific community. (You might try a little intellectual humility yourself.)

  “The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived opinion, by prejudice.” - Arthur Schopenhauer

  “Let go of your attachment to being right, and suddenly your mind is more open. You're able to benefit from the unique viewpoints of others, without being crippled by your own judgment." -Ralph Marston

  By the way, the questions based on your rules of logic that I asked earlier remain unanswered. Can you stick with your rules of logic and give me anything besides strawman arguments?

  • If, as a rule of logic, 'all living things are so complex that they MUST have had a Maker' then where did that Maker come from?
  • Or if you can make an exception that an incomprehensibly complex spirit did not need a designer, why could you not say the same for the incomprehensibly complex universe?
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  HintOfLime

  The internet spaning the world thru satellite, computers software and wires is a tinkertoy compared to one brain- and that is exaggerating the complexity of the Web.

  And yet, computers and the web has revolutionized humanity. If the human brain is go great, why would we need such "inferior" devices as computers and computer networks?

  Memorize these words: House, Exoskeleton, Sand, Exception, Generosity, Conduit, Fantastic. 10 years from now and without any reminders repeat them back in order.

  Multiply these two numbers: 18925932 x 83922501. Odds are, you can't - not without pulling out a calculator or a piece of paper. For all that grey matter, all your trillions of neurons and connections between them - your brain is terrible at performing some very simple tasks. As Thunderf00t observed - if every human being on earth were able to perform the above calculation in 1 second - the collective computing power of the entire human race would still be surpassed by a single desktop computer.

  The brain is amazing - but it is not 'well designed' as a 'general purpose' device. It evolved to be good at a select few things that were advantageous for survival. Adding numbers did not give our ancestors much advantage, and logically so natural selection would not select individuals who were extraordinarily good at math.

  Were I to design an intelligence, I would give it every tool I could fit inside of it, and certainly calculation is a fundamental skill, and easy to implement - far easier than spacial analysis. (I'd also make it modular, easy to repair, and make a hundred other improvements that 'god' apparently didn't think of.)

  Do you REALLY think that Miss Natural Selection designed and aorganized those millions of neurons, then decided that they would hook to to, monitor, and control in concert the different systems and organs?

  With the evidence supporting it, I absolutely do. Big numbers do not scare or impress me - I am quite familiar with exponential growth. 2 cells which can work together thanks to a chemical communication system would clearly give them an advantage that could be selected by natural selection. 2 becomes 4, 4 becomes 8, 8 becomes 16, 16 becomes 32, 32 become 64... 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096... with just a few dozen duplications 2 becomes trillions.

  And all the evidence for it is right there - millions of years worth of fossils showing the change from simple animals to incresingly complex. DNA evidence tells us that the oldest humans are the San Bushmen - and that their DNA traces back 100,000 years. That is fact - unlike stories about talking snakes in gardens. Is recognizing fact from fiction that hard? Biology has plenty of examples of poor 'design' and inefficient solutions - solutions that no 'designer' would use, but perfectly in line with what natural selection might produce.

  It may be incredible to believe - but it is the conclusion that all the evidence supports. How I 'feel' about things doesn't change reality.

  - Lime
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  theMadJW

  Hint:"And yet, computers and the web has revolutionized humanity. If the human brain is go great, why would we need such "inferior" devices as computers and computer networks?"

  Mad: The Human Brain CREATED it- as well as the technology you praise.

  SBC- I thought I DID answer your questions; LOGIC shows that the brain is EVIDENCE of DESIGN, since science rightfully describes it as the most complex MECHANISM in the universe- and it's coordinated links to all the systems and its functions reveal it further. Who can fathom God or Outer Space having no beginning or end?

  BTW- I haven't quoted any WTBS articles- I'm talking from my OWN viewpoint, so please quit implying otherwise.
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  brotherdan

  MadJW, I think the best argument against the lack of belief in God is the whole information systems argument. How can information come from non information.

  For example, accepting the strange possibility that matter can come from non matter, how would the information to make that matter "work" come from nothing? If a single cell could evolve, how did the information in the DNA or nucleus of the cell come to be? I just don't see how it CAN make sense. And I've never heard a good argument claiming that it could be done. And I've also never seen any demonstration of INFORMATION coming from NON-INFORMATION.
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  HintOfLime

  Mad: The Human Brain CREATED it- as well as the technology you praise.

  If you're again suggesting that complex and intelligent systems REQUIRE a CREATOR - then your own creator cannot exist, as to organize his own complex and abstract thoughts he too would have to be complex.

  Evolution is the only current theory that is not self-contradictory the way yours is. It breaks the cycle, proposing un-guided competition and selection as leading toward complexity - and is backed up completely by evidence.

  - Lime