by Englishman 83 Replies latest jw friends
Good point, however, a lot of persons who are considering a final exit, do not let on to anyone what is going on in their mind......And most people who made a final exit (That I thought I knew) seemed like they had their act together.
“Cancel my subscription to the resurrection. Send my credentials to the House of Detention, I got some friends inside.....” The Doors
Sirona,
some people DO plan it out. i did, its in my intro post if you want to read.
You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
When I was a young person I contemplated suicide but never ever told anybody, the only thing that stopped me was my love for my family and how they would suffer if I did.
I grew out of these suicidal feelings as I grew older, and don't fell that way now(49yrs old).
While I think to scare people is wrong, just to get attention, I don't feel callous remarks by others are helpful either.
I have known people that have committed suicide successfully, and the hurt they have inflicted to the survivors and my heart truley go out to them.
But life has so many ups and downs that one must face, hopefully we find a good outlook that will help us find the good and cope with the bad, to where we find it worth living.
Destoying a persons beleif system, without offering a good alternative can also be very devastating and some thing to concider before we engage our energies to do so.
If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
Englishman.
If someone is even thinking of suicide then they are verry depressed.
Telling them to "go do it" isnt exactly going to help them much. Even a cry for help is a cry for help and in my opinion should be treated as such.
A freand of mine once turned round to another freand and sead he just fancied throwing himself off the multi story car-park oposite.
The reply he got was " go on then."
So he walked out of the pub with ppl watching and laughing at him and promtly chucked himself off of the top.
fortunately he survived and he is glad he did, but he has left himself with deteriarating problems that will carry on for the rest of his life.
The ppl who stood and laughed and especially the guy who told him to do it still find it hard to sleep at night and this is more than ten yrs on.
If any one ever says to you they feel like ending it all, for gods sake find another answer than "go do it then".
Hi Mike, I agree with what you said, for the most part, but I think there are probably more than one kind of suicidal person. I have known of a couple of people who did it, and some friends of ours had a daughter who did it. None of them gave a hint that it was coming. They just did it, and made sure they wouldn't be caught in time. Those people really wanted to die. If you look back on the last days of their lives, you can see signs, but they are subtle.
One of my sons used to threaten it, when he was a teen. I poo pooed it to his HS counselor for the reasons you mentioned, that he talks about it all the time. She said I was dead wrong, and that some of them do talk about it. He was very unhappy being a witness, and saw no other way out. Eventually he left home and went to live with my df'd brother. End of that problem.
So don't be too hard on this subject. They are people to reach out to and show them you care about them, and that their life is valuable to you and to everyone.
Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
"No one can take advantage of you, without your permission." Ann Landers
I agree with Englishman. Rather than a cry for help, it is invariably a cry for attention. Not unlike periodically announcing a farewell to this board, which works for its aim every time. That's how co-dependency works.
If a person truly intends to end their life, they are not likely to announce it to a big crowd of people, because they will not want interference, they will want to succeed. What they count on is that people, especially those who esteem themselves to be characteristically loving and compassionate, are very much inclined to feel responsible for what other people do. In a way, they are controllers themselves. "If I don't talk them out of it, and they kill themself, it will be my fault for not convincing them how loved and appreciated they are. Don't 'kick them when they are down'! "
In the words of one wiseman, 'Kick them when they are down, it gives them an incentive to get up.'
Read a book on co-dependency.
I've known some people who regularly go into depression, and yes attempt suicide periodically. I've known others who get surgery ever so often. Those I have known will make claims of "just want to be loved" or are not appreciated. They claim to be the ones who are always giving to others and loving others, when the fact is they are always trying to get attention. Don't overlook that they may really be trying to another perscription for vallium, or something like it, or an excuse to for another binge.
The average person does not realize it, but the worst thing you can do for people with this kind of affliction is to pamper them. They need to face reality. By succeeding to gain temporary affection with such manipulation, they bleed family and friends emotionally until they ultimately succeed in alienating them. When that happens, hopefully they will 'hit bottom' and start coming up. Like surgery for certain ailments, its not easy, and its painful, but necessary.
Of course such people have problems, and pain. Treating it is complex, not for amateurs.
bin Adub
It is the theory which decides what we can observe.--Albert Einstein
binadub,
The average person does not realize it, but the worst thing you can do for people with this kind of affliction is to pamper them. They need to face reality. By succeeding to gain temporary affection with such manipulation, they bleed family and friends emotionally until they ultimately succeed in alienating them. When that happens, hopefully they will 'hit bottom' and start coming up. Like surgery for certain ailments, its not easy, and its painful, but necessary.That's not necessarily true. Depression afflicts people differently. Just because one thing works for one person, doesn't mean it will work for everyone. Different situations/experiences will have different solutions. There isn't a one size fits all solution.
Andi
Englishman
You are correct to a degree.
A real suicidal,person will not want any inerference in what he is going to do.
Yet their are different levels, to which a person may reach before this happens. To those who you object to, who make a threat of it, yes could be attention seeking but also it can be a genuine cry for help.
When a person is swollowed up with despair, they don't think straight. It is so easy for others to pass judgement, but I reckon those that do, do so out of ignorance rather than wisdom.
I knew a young JWs girl who started to come home from school with broken arms broken this and broken that. It was a cry for help. She wanted people know shw was hurting, but did not know how to express this. Her father was very dictatorial, she ended up leaving home at a young age and falling for a scoundral that beat her up!
She was eventualy dissfellowshiped for living with someone who was not her husband. Such a loving organisation eh?
The reason I tell you this, is that so many of her so called Christian relatives, including her father abandoned her.
I do not know what happened to her, but I would not minimise a cry for help.This could so easily have turned into a suicide.
My first reaction to the post you refer to was the same as your own, but I would be cautious of speaking publicly about it unless I really knew the guy.
You could be right, but if you are wrong, then you could push the poor fellow over the edge again.
Radar
binadub: I agree...well said!!
“Cancel my subscription to the resurrection. Send my credentials to the House of Detention, I got some friends inside.....” The Doors
One very nice JW found out his wife was messing around and contemplated suicide, he said nothing to nobody but tried to get all his affairs in order.
The night he killed himself he gave his son his wallet with all his money in it, drove to a secluded spot hooked up a vacum cleaner hose to his exaust shoved the hose in his mouth and died of carbonmonoxide poisioning.
I can only feel he must have been in tremendeous emotional pain.
I do sympathise, but feel it was his choice, he was my friend, a truley sensitive person who felt unbarable pain.
If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
