I probably shouldn't have assumed but I did, that "BurnTheShips" was a direct reference to Feanor's order to, well, Burn The Ships. It's the only context I have for the phrase. If it was misplaced, I apologize.
ONE! NO EQUAL!
by wannabe 62 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Blue Grass
isaacaustin says "There is one true god, who is manifest in 3 persons. Those three persons operation is as one god due to their perfect unity."
Who is this one true God? If the father, son, and holy spirit are just manifestations, who is the God manifesting himself and does he have a name or does he ever speak in the Bible?
leavingWT says "It may seem like a huge bother, but those audio recording will actually make it very simple and memorable for you. They really helped me to deconstruct the WT strawman explanation. The speaker has designed this sermon with a JW audience specifically in mind. So, rather than trying to describe the doctrine to a non-believer, his explanation is catered to the person who currently has the WT view in mind."
LeavingWT I literally had 100s of discussions about of the trinity long before I talked to any witnesses so I can assure you that recording won't tell me anything I didn't already know.
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jonathan dough
Could someone please post a Cliff's Notes version for those of us who don't have time to chase down links or listen to podcasts?
If the Trinity isn't 3-in-1 God, then what is it? And why name it "Trinity?" These shouldn't be complicated questions.
You want answers but you refuse to read. I don't think you want answers at all but would rather lay on the floor kicking and screaming. Your masters encourage you to research, don't they? You want Cliff Notes? For something as vast as the nature of God Almighty? You are proving the point people on this board have been making for years, that you don't think deeply, you lack the desire and ability to analyze properly. JWs and the WTS are not Bible scholars at all. They just pretend to be.
Educate yourself. Start here: http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html
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PSacramento
I am not a trinitarian in the sense that I belive you need to agree with the trinity doctrine, but it does expalin a lot in terms of the realtionship between God, Jesus and the HS.
I think that when one has made up their mind on one view or the other, it is set and I don't try to argue with people about it.
God does exist in perfect union with Jesus and the HS, HOW you choose to interpret that union is up to you.
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PSacramento
By the way, if someone really wants to understand the complete nature of God they shoudl do what another poster suggested on another thread ( sorry I forget who it was):
Understand ALL that God has created and I mean ALL -
Quantum physics, evolution, law of thermodynamics, etc, etc, etc and when you have understood these things completely and with no questions, then you can TRY to START to understand the being that created them all.
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BurnTheShips
Who is this one true God? If the father, son, and holy spirit are just manifestations,
They aren't manifestations. That concept isn't Trinitarianism, that's Sabellianism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism
In Christianity, Sabellianism, (also known as modalism, modalistic monarchianism, or modal monarchism) is the nontrinitarian belief that the Heavenly Father, Resurrected Son and Holy Spirit are different modes or aspects of one God, as perceived by the believer, rather than three distinct persons in God Himself.
BTS
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isaacaustin
Bluegrass said: isaacaustin says "There is one true god, who is manifest in 3 persons. Those three persons operation is as one god due to their perfect unity."
Who is this one true God? If the father, son, and holy spirit are just manifestations, who is the God manifesting himself and does he have a name or does he ever speak in the Bible?
My reply: Yahweh is the one true God. Three persons operate and fulfil this role. Man has never seen the father. God is revealed to us in the person of Jesus.
Bluegrass said:
leavingWT says "It may seem like a huge bother, but those audio recording will actually make it very simple and memorable for you. They really helped me to deconstruct the WT strawman explanation. The speaker has designed this sermon with a JW audience specifically in mind. So, rather than trying to describe the doctrine to a non-believer, his explanation is catered to the person who currently has the WT view in mind."
LeavingWT I literally had 100s of discussions about of the trinity long before I talked to any witnesses so I can assure you that recording won't tell me anything I didn't already know.
My reply: I don't doubt you have heard much. Understanding is your issue.
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Blue Grass
BurnTheShips says "The Bible isn't the Word of God...We have a Word of God, and it isn't a book. It is the living Christ. That's the true Word, not the Bible. The church that Christ founded and infused with the holy spirit is the body of Christ, even if scattered around the Earth and existing in a partial state of separation like it is today. We aren't a religion of a mute book, but a religion of the Living Word."
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
I have no idea where you got the idea of the Bible not being the word of God from or that it's a "mute book". Also I would like to know what is this church today that's infused with so much holy spirit that we should listen to them rather than the Bible.(Didn't Fred Franz say something like that before)
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jonathan dough
"God" isn't a single entity/being, but rather a single position shared perfectly harmoniously by three individuals, correct? So my "triplets become president" analogy sort of fits? Kind of?
No. God is One, a single being, a single entity. He is not 3 separate individuals. Persons are not persons like you or I, but rather distinctions. We're not talking about Jesus of Nazareth here, but the nature of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, immanent Trinity, before creation. Read: http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#3
"In most formularies the doctrine is stated by saying that God is one in His essential being, but that in this being there are three Persons, yet so as not to form separate and distinct individuals. They are three modes or forms in which the divine essence exists. ‘Person’ is, however, an imperfect expression of the truth in as much as the term denotes to us a separate rational and moral individual. But in the being of God there are not three individuals, but only three personal self-distinctions within the one divine essence. (New Bible Dictionary, 1299, 1300)"
Trinitaritians do not claim to be able to PROVE the Trinity, including the hypostatic union of the God-man-Jesus, as you insist they do. Much is taken on faith, and faith is a good thing. With respect to the Messiah and role that faith plays with respect to economic Trinity:
“His human nature, perfect and complete, was not a human person distinct from the Divine person of the Word … it was the human nature of a Divine Person. This point of our faith enwraps the humanity of Christ in full mystery. … His human life included true human knowledge and a human will distinct from the divine will” (ibid., 936).
Our faith in Christ, the God-man, supposes that his humanity is not a human person (the mystery). For if it were, and if there were a duality of persons in Christ, then the Divine Person would not really be man but only united with a man; Christ would not be what our faith says he is.” (ibid., 937)
It is reasonable to have faith in the Trinity.
As a side note, the Trinity doctrine teaches "that “The humanity of Christ is a creature, it is not God” (Catholic Encyclopedia, 922). The point being that the WTS have mislead people into believing that Christendom teaches that the creature is the Almighty. That is manifestly false and misleading.
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Blue Grass
Isaacaustin you just contradicted yourself. According to the Jesus Yahweh is the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob who Jesus also said is his father. So you are saying the true God(Yahweh) manifested himself as the Son(Jesus), the holy spirit, and the Father(Yahweh). You're saying Yahweh manifested himself as Yahweh.