Immortal Soul? Impossible! (page 10)

Mary

Unfortunately, I am. And yes, I think an apology is in order FS. That was rather a rude and snarky comment to make to me for no reason whatsoever.

Mary

You better not be having inpure thoughts now FS. You better phone a local bozo elder for some spiritual guidance. Ha!

Now where the heck did Blue Grass get to????

frankiespeakin

Mary,

You better not be having inpure thoughts now FS.

I'm a man I can't help but have impure thoughts, . Okay enough of this psychoanalysis Dr. Mary Freud, and lets get back to if this fictitious deity written about in the bible and see if he was influenced by surrounding culture to give man a immortal soul and lets leave off for argument sake whether it is really telling the truth and just concentrate on the meaning at the time of writing.

Blue Grass

So if our spirit is impersonal, and has no consciouness, or the ability to see, speak and reason, they how do you account for what happened when Saul went to see the Witch of Endor? If the 'spirit' of man is no more than electricity and is 'immaterial' and 'without consciousness', then how do you explain how the witch "called up" Samuel?

I don't believe that spirit in that account was Saul for several reasons. The first being that God was against the practice of witchcraft and I don't believe he would let them have the ability to communicate with his followers if they were dead. But assuming the witch really did contact Saul, I would think that once the rest of Israel found out witches could call up people from the past, at some point in the Bible somebody would of tried to contact Adam, Able, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Joseph, or Moses.

She was terrified when Samuel actually appeared to her, spoke to Saul, correctly predicted his armies' defeat and Saul's own demise

The spirit didn't actually physically appear to Saul or the woman, she saw a vision of a spirit.

1 Samuel 28:When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!" 13 The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?" The woman said, "I see a spirit coming up out of the ground."14"What does he look like?" he asked.

The fact that Saul asked the woman what did the spirit look like shows that the spirit never actually appeared, but was seen in a vision by the witch. The fact the spirit correctly predicted the outcome doesn't mean the spirit was actually Samuel. We saw in Acts where an evil spirit also gave a girl the power to correctly predict the future.

Acts 16:16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. 17 This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, "These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved." 18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, "In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!" At that moment the spirit left her.

1 Corinthians 15 dispells the idea of an 'impersonal spirit' without a body or thought. Verse 44 specifically states: " If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body." It even tells us that the spiritual body is received when a person dies:

It is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we shall bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

You kind of took Paul's words out of context here. Paul is speaking about what type of body we will have after the resurrection. You also left out the most important part of verse 44.

I Corinthians 15: 35 But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?"37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

The body we have now is perishable(flesh), it will be raised imperishable(spirit), sown in dishonor(flesh), raised in glory(spirit), sown in weakness(flesh), raised in power(spirit). Yes there are spiritual bodies, but we will not receive them until the resurrection, and as Paul states in verse 37, if we're going to have spiritual bodies after the resurrection, than that means we don't have them now because when you sow you don't plant what will be but just a seed.

isaacaustin

you guys mean Samuel, not Saul.

isaacaustin

blue grass, why did you not finish teh account in Samuel?? Because if you did you would see scripture calls the spirit Samuel and refers to the words as Samuel's...

	1Sa 28:12	When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!"
	1Sa 28:13	The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?" The woman said, "I see a spirit [fn] coming up out of the ground."
	1Sa 28:14	"What does he look like?" he asked. "An old man wearing a robe is coming up," she said. Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
	1Sa 28:15	Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" "I am in great distress," Saul said. "The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has turned away from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do."
	1Sa 28:16	Samuel said, "Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has turned away from you and become your enemy?
	1Sa 28:17	The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors--to David.
	1Sa 28:18	Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today.
	1Sa 28:19	The Lord will hand over both Israel and you to the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also hand over the army of Israel to the Philistines."
	1Sa 28:20	Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel's words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and night.

Robdar

blue grass, why did you not finish teh account in Samuel??

Because then he might have to admit he is incorrect. And we know that aint going to happen.

Immortal Soul? Impossible!

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