God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff 322 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Perry
    Perry

    The reality is of course that in many ways, the Atheist worldview was essentially already taught by the WT. This is why, despite the fact that only a very view people in the general population can numb the brain enough to imagine the universe appearing out of nothing like Dawkins said that it did; the EX-JW appears to be over represented by the Atheist worldview.

    We have all been trained for a pretty naturalistic worldview. I did my stint as an atheist/agnostic after leaving.

    Some of these below are better than others. I do have more somewhere on my computer though. It is my prayer that people exiting the Watchtower would completely do so, instead of just trading their WT masters for the likes of Dawkins....who simple declares that the universe appeared out of nothing.

    JW: Does Not Worship Jesus

    Atheist: Does Not Worship Jesus

    Christian: Worships Jesus

    JW: Does Not Pray to Jesus

    Atheist: Does Not Pray to Jesus

    Christian: Prays to Jesus

    JW: Rejects Jesus at the Memorial

    Atheist: Rejects Jesus

    Christian: Fully Accepts Jesus

    JW: Doesn’t accept literal creation account

    Atheist: Doesn’t accept literal creation account

    Christian: Many accept literal creation account

    JW: Gets knowledge of “good and bad” from human authority - WT

    Atheist: Gets knowledge of “good and bad” from human authority - society

    Christian: Gets knowledge of good and bad from God (revelation)

    JW: NT wasn’t written for the average JW

    Atheist: NT wasn’t written for them

    Christian: NT was written for All

    JW: Hates their enemies

    Atheist: Hates their enemies

    Christian: Can Supernaturally Love their enemies

    JW: Doesn’t need a personal Savior (growing into perfection)

    Atheist: Doesn’t need a personal Savior (sin doesn’t exist)

    Christian: Needs a personal Savior (justice demands punishment of sin)

    JW: Individual sin is not punished

    Atheist: Individual sin is not punished

    Christian: YOUR sin is punished either on the Cross or in Gehenna - your choice

    JW: Jesus was a man

    Atheist: Jesus was a man

    Christian: Jesus was fully God and fully man

    JW: Death is the end of our consciousness

    Atheist: Death is the end of our consciousness

    Christian: Souls die, but spirits survive death

    JW: Government comes from elite people - GB

    Atheist: Government comes from elite people

    Christian: Government ordained by God

    JW: Rights come from GB (JW government)

    Atheist: Rights come from secular government

    Christian: Rights come from God

    JW: Must protect their rights

    Atheist: Must protect their rights

    Christian: Must surrender rights at times

    JW: Compares themselves to others

    Atheist: Compares themselves to others

    Christian: Compares themselves to Jesus

    JW: Causing medical death OK (blood policy)

    Atheist: Causing medical death OK (abortion)

    Christian: Causing medical death is murder

    JW: Men choose God

    Atheist: Men choose God

    Christian: God chooses men

    JW: Eternal Life comes from knowledge

    Atheist: Quality Life comes from knowledge

    Christian: Quality and quantity of Life comes from Christ

    JW: Gifts of the Spirit don’t exist now

    Atheist: Gifts of the Spirit don’t exist

    Christian: Gifts of the Spirit exist

    JW: Born again Christians are despised

    Atheist: Born again Christians are despised

    Christian: Born again Christians are brothers

    JW: God doesn’t speak to individuals

    Atheist: God doesn’t speak to individuals

    Christian: God speaks to individuals

    JW: God is personally far away

    Atheist: God is even farther

    Christian: God is near - omnipresent

    JW: Holy Spirit does not inhabit people

    Atheist: Holy Spirit does not inhabit people

    Christian: Holy Spirit inhabits His rightful “temple” - hearts of believers

    JW: Has reason to fear death

    Atheist: Has reason to fear death

    Christian: No reason to fear death

    JW: Death guaranteed

    Atheist: Death guaranteed

    Christian: Death conquered - Already “passed over from death to LIFE”

    JW: Morality is what the WT (the group) says it is

    Atheist: Morality is what society (the group) says it is

    Christian: Morality is what God says it is

    JW: Do not belong to Christ

    Atheist: Do not belong to Christ

    Christian: Belong to Christ

    JW: Wrong to eat Christ’s flesh & drink his blood

    Atheist: Wrong to eat Christ’s flesh & drink his blood

    Christian: Right and good to eat Christ’s flesh & drink his blood

    JW: Celebrating Christ’s birthday is wrong

    Atheist: Celebrating Christ’s birthday is wrong

    Christian: Celebrating Christ’s birthday is right

    JW: Jesus was not God

    Atheist: Jesus was not God

    Christian: Jesus was fully God and fully man

    JW: People are basically good

    Atheist: People are basically good

    Christian: People are basically bad

    JW: Military viewed negatively

    Atheist: Many viewed military negatively

    Christian: Military viewed as a positive for countries

    JW: Creating a utopia –spiritual paradise

    Atheist: Creating a utopia – social paradise

    Christian: Neither live in, nor can achieve a utopia apart from God

    JW: Truth is revealed apart from God (GB)

    Atheist: Truth is revealed apart from God (science)

    Christian: Truth is revealed directly by God

    JW: Individual revelation does not happen

    Atheist: Individual revelation does not happen

    Christian: Revelation happens

    JW: Exclude themselves from the membership of Christ’s brothers

    Atheist: Exclude themselves from the membership of Christ’s brothers

    Christian: Are Christ’s brothers

    JW: Human Government not ordained by God

    Atheist: Human Government not ordained by God

    Christian: Human Government ordained by God

    JW: Identity based on works

    Atheist: Identity based on works

    Christian: Identity based on Divine Heredity

    JW: Are not sons of God

    Atheist: Are not sons of God

    Christian: Sons of God

    JW: Death is the end

    Atheist: Death is the end

    Christian: Death is the beginning of YOUR eternity

    JW: God is not in control of this world - the devil is

    Atheist: God is not in control of this world – socio-political conditioners are

    Christian: God is in total control

    JW: Jesus cannot know the beginning and the end of things

    Atheist: Jesus cannot know the beginning and the end of things

    Christian: Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega

    JW: Jesus is not Lord

    Atheist: Jesus is not Lord

    Christian: Jesus is Lord

    JW: The elect basically do not exist

    Atheist: The elect do not exist

    Christian: The elect are everywhere, at every level of society

    JW: Are suspicious of Christians

    Atheist: Are suspicious of Christians

    Christian: Are comfortable with Christians

    JW: Blames religion for war

    Atheist: Blames religion for war

    Christian: Blames sin for war

    JW: God is not the proper source of education – WT is

    Atheist: God is not the proper source of education – State is

    Christian: God is the proper Source of all education

    JW: Earth is Home

    Atheist: Earth is Home

    Christian: Wherever Jesus is, is Home

    JW: Holy Spirit doesn’t exist as a person

    Atheist: Holy Spirit doesn’t exist as a person

    Christian: The Personality of the Holy Spirit indwells the believer

    JW: No possible punishment after death

    Atheist: No possible punishment after death

    Christian: Punishment for ALL sin is either on Cross or in Gehenna

    JW: Have not yet made peace with God through Christ

    Atheist: Have not yet made peace with God through Christ

    Christian: Are at peace with God

    JW: We are not evil; Evil is outside of a person and impacts him

    Atheist: We are not evil; If there is evil at all, it is outside him and inhibits man's good

    Christian: We are evil by nature

    JW: Has declared himself righteous - by association

    Atheist: Has declared himself righteous – by autonomy

    Christian: Has declared himself GUILTY

    JW: Do not like being compared with atheists

    Atheist: Do not like being compared with JW’s

    Christian: Apart from Christ, it doesn’t really matter who you’re compared with

    JW’s: Truth changes

    Atheist: Truth changes

    Christian: Truth is permanent

    JW’s: What is permissible today, may be immoral tomorrow

    Atheist: What is permissible today, may be immoral tomorrow

    Christian: All things are permissible, not all things are advantageous

    JW’s: Must jump through others’ hoops

    Atheist: Must jump through others’ hoops

    Christian: Must jump through no man’s hoop.

    JW’s: Laws are external to human nature

    Atheist: Laws are external to human nature

    Christian: Laws are internal to the new nature, written on the heart

    JW’s: Some personal value derived from position in Society

    Atheist: Some personal value derived from position in society

    Christian: Personal value equal to God’s Son irregardless of position

    JW’s: Life’s meaning provided by leaders of Society

    Atheist: Life’s meaning provided by leaders society

    Christian: Life’s meaning provided by God

    JW’s : Slave to sin

    Atheist: Slave to Sin

    Christian: No longer slave to sin

    JW’s: Must seek to save himself

    Atheist: Must seek to save himself

    Christian: Must seek to lose himself

    JW’s: Getting enough is never enough

    Atheist: Getting enough is never enough

    Christian: God satisfies apart from things

    JW’s: Seeks happiness

    Atheist: Seeks happiness

    Christian: Experiences joy as a gift

    JW’s: Expecting others to die at Armageddon

    Atheists: Expecting others to die by natural causes

    Christian: Expecting others to live by means of Christ

    JW’s: Takes credit for his good things

    Atheist: Takes credit for his good things

    Christian: Gives God credit for his good things

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Ok, this is too easy, someone else handle this...

  • cofty
    cofty

    Perry - The thread is about god and suffering. I know its a hard question but really, your last post isn't even wrong

  • Perry
    Perry

    Cofty,

    Are you still so dull as to not make the connection? The Atheist/JW worldview has absolutely ZERO logical explanation for the anomaly of evil..... the cause of suffering. Likewise, the view of God is also skewed. I especially am literally turned on like a light bulb when I hear atheists quote a JW view to justify their own.

    It is pure insanity.

  • shamus100
    shamus100

    Ok, this is too easy, someone else handle this...

    Really,

    What's the point? Perry comes on here until people pelt him with rocks and he slithers away for a while and collects his thinly-veiled self-righteous hatred to spew all over again.

    He reminds me of Hitler more than Christ.

  • cofty
    cofty

    No Perry I am not dull and I try to refrain form personal attacks - give it a try.

    To say that atheists have zero (why the capitals) logical explanation for the anomaly of evil is like saying the Rev Ian Paisley has no explanation for the mystery of transubstantiation.

    You can't just invent an agency and give it a name and then challenge others to explain it. The causes of suffering are much more mundane, no devils or demons.

    As for atheists quoting JWs I don't know what you mean. Perhaps you could address the original question?

  • HappyGuy
    HappyGuy

    Perry,

    I used to be a JW (22 years). I am no longer a JW. I am not an atheist. I am also not a Christain. I did not "trading their WT masters for the likes of Dawkins". I do not like Dawkins nor do I agree with him. I do not accept evolution as fact (it is a theory). I do not accept Creationism as fact (it is a delusion).

    Perry, do you smoke crack?

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Lets face it, for Perry, it is a great sell to former JW's if he can convince you that JW's and atheists are alike. To which I say...

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Ok, I had to get that out.

  • Perry
    Perry
    To say that atheists have zero (why the capitals) logical explanation for the anomaly of evil is like saying the Rev Ian Paisley has no explanation for the mystery of transubstantiation.

    So lets hear it Cofty. So far NOT one poster here has had the gumption (gum showing) to offer an explanation to explain evil and suffering except me. The reality is that this thread seems to simply be for the purpose of cursing God. That's fine. But isn't there any one here, liberal Christian, atheist, agnostic that can offer at least one coherent logical theory?

    Surely if a literal reading of the bible is so ignorant, then someone here ought to have far better ideas ...right?

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Perry, why does evil and suffering need an explanation, esp a supernatural one?

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit