God and Suffering (page 9)

designs

Deputy Dog, Perry, Stephen, Jonathan................ the 4 Horsemen of John Calvin

Thanks for the theology lesson DD. I know soteriology better than most. I believed it with a passion for many years post-borg. It is in a different league from anything the WT has ever taught about salvation but when you ask difficult questions and hold it up to reality it is ultimately vacuous.

It has no answer to the subject of this thread, your jaw dropping comment is evidence enough of that

Because we all deserve much more suffering than we receive.

Deputy Dog

cofty

If you find my comment jaw dropping, you obviously never understood God's grace or the gospel.

cofty

I understand it thoroughly - I just don't fall for it any more.

Perry

I did not start a 'hate God party', sir. I asked a perfectly sound set of intelligent questions,

AK Jeff,

No you did not, sir. There was nothing intelligent whatsoever in your post. You and I have already gone over this BEFORE....REMEMBER?

I post below the contents of this man's perspective - and add that I find it very hard to fault his premise on consideration. The following words are not mine, but his:

Here you try to avoid culpability for propagating such non-sense by saying that the below isn't really your words.....but you just can't quite resist the urge to personally validate a false premise that you KNOW TO BE FALSE. And, what was that premise? It is the same premise that you brought up before and that I used the bible to correct you on:

Imagine a kind and loving parent who infects her child with polio for some rule violation leaving her crippled for life. We would even balk at the cruelty of giving polio to a convicted serial murderer. We would never tolerate that sort of maliciousness, yet God, if we are to believe these justifications, is more cruel than any human who has ever lived.

The idea that human beings are God's children when they are born is false. It is false today. It will be false tomorrow morning. It will always be false. You cannot change this. No amount of whinning or repeating this charge will ever make it true ....ever. Why? Because God says so:

Romans 9:8 - They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God

1 Corinthians 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had ....the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

It is incredibly deceptive to continue a false argument that is PROVEN to be false just for your own personal jihad. There has been untold suffering thrown on all of us by the WT because of their lies. People have suffered prison for false biblical arguments on military/alternative service, died from the lies about the blood doctrine, committed suicide because they think that they are "acquitted" of their sin when they die, and turned away from God to face Judgment because someone told them that God makes his children suffer. etc. etc. etc.

So for the record, the God of the bible does not claim the children of Adam as his own. God is not causing suffering. God is not allowing suffering to see if man can rule himself like the WT teaches. God is under no obligation to do anything nice for his enemies:

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Out of his own kindness....without obligation of any kind, God took the form of flesh and took believer's punishment due them for their sins.

Hebrews 10:29 - Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

God is in complete control of the situation and perfectly free to save some, all, or none without obligation since we are his enemies by nature and do not want him. Man wants religion yes, so that they can perpetuate the illusion of righteousness....but God, no. To want God, is to lose yourself...totally; since there is nothing inside of people worth saving. It must be crucified along with Christ and a new life must be given to replace it.

OnTheWayOut

Okay, JW's are like atheists because they don't believe what Perry believes. I will say that IS too easy to tackle and let it go.

But it boils down to some simple stuff here.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able, nor willing? Then why call him God?" -Epicurus

Definitions to help Perry:
omnipotent- having unlimited power
malevolent- having or displaying ill will; wishing harm on others; having an evil or harmful influence

Even if god did not directly create evil, if he is still omnibenevolent (the property of being perfectly good) and omnipotent and omniscient (all knowing, infinitely wise) he is still sovereign and has the final authority in letting evil exist in the first place (no matter its nature or cause – sin, freewill, rebellion, etc) and allowing it to persist for so long. If you argue that he is not omnibenevolent, then call him God but why worship him?

cofty

If you argue that he is not omnibenevolent, then call him God but why worship him?

Perhaps its the Stockholm Syndrome?

HappyGuy

I like the way that the Klingon's dealt with their gods who had allowed suffering and evil to exist. The Klingons tracked them down and killed them.

AllTimeJeff

Perry, you are in my mind, the Sarah Palin of nut case conservatives. Keep talking, you make being your kind of "Christian" less and less appealing the more you share your profound frontal lobe activity. (I am being generous there.)

When I asked earlier in this thread why evil needed explaining, to assume that it exists, I did this with the full knowledge that you totally missed AK Jeff's point of the thread.

Then you continue to assert that we are born enemies of god, that this is proven. Dear lord man! Proven how? With a copy of your damn holy book and your idiotic interpretations of it?

You are changing the subject. The original premise is why suffering is allowed by a supposedly omnipotent loving god. Your insensitive, moronic, stupid, oxygen wasting answer is to blame mankind for being born in a sinful state.

How in the world you cannot see how much YOU are acting like a JW right now boggles the mind.

Jesus would be ashamed of you.

BurnTheShips

If sky-daddy is really there - his sense of justice is all screwed up isn't it? Oh, that's right, I am like a little child that can't understand. I keep forgetting.

AK-Jeff

I detect a bit of sarcasm here. That’s a real shame. Sarcasm frequently becomes an outlet for the expression of anger, frustration and fear. Sarcasm is also often used to inflict pain, or to make a person feel small.

Have you made an open-minded, good faith attempt at reading any of the best treatments available from a Christian perspective regarding the problem of suffering? If not, would you be willing to do so?

BTS

God and Suffering

Share this