anyways all in all..we all have the right to free will...God did give us that gift...what happens to us with our free will well that's everyone's choice...adam and eve had free will look where that got them...look where that got us...the people of noah's time had free will everyone but noah's family and a lot of animals were spared...look what happened with the rest of the ones who didn't survive look where their free will got them...jws dont force people to not celebrate holidays and such...its everyone's choice not to celebrate or to celebrate pagan holidays
10 good reasons why celebrating birthdays should be allowed
by bluecanary 90 Replies latest watchtower bible
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sweet
sorry for double post. wish i could remove it..anyone know how to remove post?
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DoubleVision
I think number 5 is a great point I just need to research where it is in the bible where it talks about these things because I know they won't take my word for it .
5. The Bible speaks poorly of other things that are allowable. Wearing make up, owning dogs, giving wedding gifts, haircuts and drinking are all associated in the Bible with tragic acts. Yet, none of these things are considered unacceptable for Christians. Why would birthdays not be held to the same standard?
DV
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White Dove
Sweet,
That "JW's don't force people to not celebrate holidays and such" is horse $hit, and you know it. I dare you to set up a Yule/Christmas tree and invite elders and their wives to dinner on December 25th.
Just try it and see how fast your butt is yanked into a judicial committee hearing.
My grandmother was disfellowshipped for having one small decoration on her TV. It was an art project brought home by her youngest daughter and slightly resembled a tree.
My mother, her older daughter, turned her into the elders for it.
Now, if you say, "Well, she must not have been sorry for it." Why should she be if it's not against WTS policy and not a disfellowshipping offence? She could have said, "I'm sorry and won't do it again."
Then if she did it again, she'd get df'd for it, for sure.
So stop sugar coating the severity of the punishments for breaking WTS rules, and the rules themselves. My goddess man, BE HONEST!
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sweet
im not a jw...so i wont be disfellowshipped nor disassociated...plus i have respect for jws and people of any religion i dont invite ppl when im doing something thats against one's religion...i have not personally known of a jw that got disfellowshipped for anything that is not listed in the bible...i'm not saying it doesn't happen either...but the jws i personally know say it is a conscious decision whether one partakes in things of that sort...not something to be disfellowshipped about...what i meant about jw don't force celebrating of holidays on people is that hey holidays are still being celebrated right??
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palmtree67
Good points, all.
Sweet, I don't know what JW's you are listening to, but what you have been told is incorrect. Their mission is to sound very "accepting" to new recruits, but in reality, they are not. And since you are not and never have been a JW, you cannot ( respectfully ) speak about what they beleive or are willing to accept.
Sorry. That's a fact.
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bluecanary
Double vision, when I can get back on my other computer, I'll try and round up my sources on #5 for you. If you want to run a search in the meantime, I found info on those items on this board. Here's what I can dig up right now:
The early Christians apparently never pooped. In fact, the only instances of anyone using the crapper in the Bible were Eglon and Saul, both bad men.
Jezebel and apostate Israel (both guilty of murder) are the only individuals in the Bible said to use eye paint, making themselves beautiful. (2Kings 9:30; Jer 4:30)
All instances of dogs being mentioned in the Bible were negative. The Bible doesn't even mention cats. If the early Christians didn't own them, apparently it would be unacceptable for us today.
Bridesmaid Dresses
"If you've ever wondered why bridesmaids all dress the same, it's because Roman law required ten witnesses to make a wedding legal. Several of these witnesses dressed up exactly like the bride and groom, to confound any malevolent forces who might show up uninvited."I have a good scripture about wedding gifts but it's on the other computer.
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bluecanary
From this thread that has lots of good points:
Birthdays ? Disapproved by Jehovah?
Since the Society disallows baptism for those that are currently celebrating birthdays, it is considered an important matter. Does the Bible actually support this position? Following are several lines of reasoning, and why those lines of reasoning are in question. If it can be shown that birthday celebrations are not condemned by the Bible, would it not be ?going beyond what is written? to forbid them? (1 Cor. 4:6)
- There are only 2 birthday celebrations mentioned in the Bible. Both were for wicked people, and murder took place at both of them. (Gen 40:20; Mark 6:21; Matt 14:6)
- Jezebel and apostate Israel (both guilty of murder) are the only individuals in the Bible said to use eye paint, making themselves beautiful. (2Kings 9:30; Jer 4:30) The same reasoning that forbids birthdays should also forbid eye makeup, but it doesn?t.
- It can?t be reasonably argued that their use of ?eye paint? was excessive, since God?s own word admits they were ?beautiful? after so adorning themselves.
- There is no record that the Jews or 1 st century Christians celebrated their birthdays
- There is also no record that they held bridal showers, baby showers, or called their houses of worship "Kingdom Halls". The fact that they did not perform a certain act doesn?t in itself preclude our doing so.
- The date of Jesus birth is not recorded in the Bible. If we were expected to celebrate birthdays, surely this would be the most important birthday of all.
- As shown in point 2, the Jews did not celebrate birthdays, so it is not surprising that Jesus continued that custom. But the point is not to establish whether we "should" celebrate birthdays ("Is it a command?") but to determine if we should not do so ("Is it forbidden?") There is no record that Mary received a baby shower for Jesus or any of her other children, but that has not caused the Society to forbid us from hosting such events.
- Birthdays are of Pagan origin, rooted in astrology and showing undue prominence to ruling monarchs. (See http://www.triumphpro.com/birthdays_origin.htm)
- Many things originated with people that did not serve Jehovah. This is to be expected, since down through history most people have not followed the path of true worship of God. Is it necessary to reject all things that did not originate with Jehovah?s people?
- The use of eye makeup is tied to false beliefs about evil spirits. Should it be forbidden? (see http://www.thehistoryof.net/the-history-of-cosmetics.html)
- The practice of dressing the bride and brides maids and the groom and his attendants in similar clothing has pagan origins. Should it be forbidden? (see http://www.iberkshires.com/howto.php?howto_id=7&child=13)
- The practice of cremating a body rather than burying it has pagan roots. Is this practice disapproved by God? (see http://www.triumphpro.com/cremation____pagan.htm)
- Also consider the pagan origins of the calendar, the names of the planets, wedding rings, wedding veils, and the use of perfume. None of these are forbidden, despite their pagan origins.
- Some have said they feel rule for determining if a custom with pagan origins was still acceptable was if the custom was accepted by the world in general (such as the names of the days of the week) and if continuing in the custom did not violate any of Jehovah?s laws from the Bible. By that measure, makeup, cremation, and birthdays would all be acceptable.
- Jeremiah 10:1-3 warns us not to ?adopt the customs of the heathens?
- The fact that another nation did something does not in and of itself make it wrong. The context of these verses (and similar ones throughout the Bible) make it clear that it is the unclean, scripturally disapproved customs that are in question. As an example, the heathens may have known of a certain construction technique that worked well with the raw materials at hand in the land of Canaan. The Israelites would not have thought it improper to adopt those building methods, since they did not conflict with Jehovah?s laws.
- Birthdays direct undue prominence to one person, elevating that one improperly
- A wedding feast, such as the one attended by Jesus, would have the same elevating effect on the newly married couple. A baby shower puts the new mother and her child in the spotlight. Even a simple announcement at the Kingdom Hall that a certain individual is pioneering that month tends to draw prominence to that one. But this is not considered wrong under any of these other circumstances. Why single out birthdays?
- Solomon warned at Ecclesiastes 7:1-4 that ?the day of one?s death is better than the day of one?s birth?, presumably because at death the individual has run the course of faith successfully and has established his name. The celebrating of one?s birth runs counter to this admonishment.
- Solomon said a name is better than good oil, but this does not forbid the accumulating of oil. He said being sad is better than being happy, but this doesn?t forbid being happy. The entire run of verses makes the point that there is a need to spend some time seriously working on one?s character, becoming a genuinely good person. A life spent in sheer frivolity would not result in a good name, but enduring the pain and sadness, along with the comforts and joys, leads to a full life. Solomon was not expressing an opinion about birthday celebrations any more than he was forbidding obtaining good oil, or laughing.
- Baby showers are held to celebrate the birth of a baby. Would these not also violate any supposed "rule" of Solomon? While it may be true that the shower provides items for the family, the fact is that the reason the shower is held is because a child was born.
- We have no need to celebrate birthdays. We can give gifts all year long, there is no need to wait for a certain day.
- While that?s true, the point is to determine if such celebrations are displeasing to God. For instance, there is no real need to drink caffeinated drinks such as coffee or tea, but it isn?t forbidden. We wouldn?t use that same logic to try to forbid any other unnecessary aspects of our lives (pet ownership, home decorating, drinking alcohol), so why would we single out birthdays?
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bluecanary
Sweet you have ignored the evidence presented and continue to spout watchtower rhetoric even when it's contradicted by fact and logic. You've also ignored my invitation to discuss a truly relevant topic, like every other JW that's come along. What exactly are you hoping to accomplish?
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White Dove
Sweet,
I would suggest becoming a JW and then doing it your way. Be a JW but do the things you want to do, even if they say not to and see how fast you are df'd for it. Choose this or get punished is called an ultimatum. It is not a choice.