Getting into Arguments with JW's...

by ForbiddenFruit 159 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • theMadJW
    theMadJW

    People today scoff at such sacrifices- yet animals were THEIR form of wealth, and they slaughtered the animals themselves each day for food- no stores to buy it from.

    So in those ancient (and alien) times, it was a gesture of love to offer up their wealth. God later directed them as to how, for many different reasons.

    Ever see the old movie (@1960) "The Bible"? It should have been called "Genesis", since it covered most of that book only. You will find the part of Abraham asked to offer up his son VERY interesting!

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    Well, fortunately Christians aren't asked to even pretend to bind up their children and offer them on an altar to God.

    I can't tell you how much I appreciate that.

    Can we talk about the power of a metaphor for Messianic sacrifice here? Nah, I thought not.

    Not everything in the Bible has to be literal for it to have powerful meaning.

  • My Struggle
  • not a captive
    not a captive

    I never scoff at the idea behind animal sacrifice.To the horror of many people-- myself included-- it has been my lot to have killed many, so many animals in my life. Never for pleasure. I love animals --and people. I take good care of them. I have lived in fairly primitive situations much of my life. But I recognize that even when it is only to eat or to euthanize (only animals!) I know that I am viewed with a horror by some who find that I have done this at all. So I don't bring it up much. If anyone finds this disturbing, I apologize.)

    As to Jehovah's regulating animal sacrifice, it is interesting to note that sin marked the advent of sacrificial killing. I submit that Matthew 19:8 speaks generally to the idea that just because it was something we thought to do didn't mean that it was Jehovah's idea. Sacrifice wasn't his thing. It always was always something else: Listening to him

    In fact this is precisely the commendation that follwed Abraham's attempt to kill Isaac for Jehovah: Because of the fact that you have listened to my voice.

    In fact Jeremiah 7:21-23 says:"This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, has said, 'Add those whole burnt offerings of yours to your sascrifices and eat flesh. For I did not speak with your forefathers, nor did I command them in the day of my bringing them out from the land of Egypt concerning the matters of whole burnt offering and sacrifice. But this word I did express in command upon them, saying: "Obey my voice, and I will become your God, and you yourselves will become my people; and you must walk in allthe way that I shall command you."'

    A very interesting scripture, is it not?

    No, I don't think I ever saw "The Bible". But I will try to send along a really funny irreverent video that results from misunderstanding the intention behind sacrifice-- and particularlyGenesis 22.

    Thanks for the searching responses.

    Maeve

  • theMadJW
    theMadJW

    My pleasure, NAC- and an Honor to 'meet' you!

  • not a captive
    not a captive

    Oops--- can't find youtube vid. Probably inappropriate to the discussion--at least in tone. But suffice to say it reflects the universal disgust that many have for a God's who required the slaughter of a man's child as a test of faith.

  • theMadJW
    theMadJW

    The opinion of others is supposed to matter? That- and a couple bucks'll get you a cup of coffee at McDonald's.

    Ancient life then is almost the equivalent of life on another planet; we have little idea what they went thru each day, nor how they VIEWED things. God had to deal with them far differently than today.

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    I'm sure that Abraham was overjoyed at the thought of killing his only remaining heir, that meant nothing to people in those times. *eye roll*

    Oh, man, I think we're safe in assuming that Isaac meant something to Abraham or it wouldn't have been a "sacrifice". It's inherent in the word sacrifice that it means giving something of value!

    The whole point of the Abraham Isaac thing is that it wasn't the sacrifice that God wanted, he wanted to be listened to in the sense of listening and obeying. It was always about listening to God.

    I mean, he only had to tell the Jews that a thousand times in a thousand different ways before they never got it!

    The whole meaning of sacrifice for sin was to show that it was rather pointless as to actually fixing anything about being just a dumb old human being. The giving up of something of value only meant anything to humans, God is a divine being on a non material plane, what does he need with a dead sheep?

  • theMadJW
    theMadJW

    Hey- check the movie from Blockbuster- or serch for it on cable- I thinl you'll LOVEit for the insight it shows!

  • theMadJW
    theMadJW

    (It captures what you're thinking @ Abraham!)

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