Do any of you still believe in 'Hellfire'? heh (page 19)

theMadJW

"I'm glad I'm just like the criminal before God, having faith only in the promise and not my works."

He must be incapatated and dying....

theMadJW

"Notice that THE thing that JW's proclaim as being what makes "jehova the happiest" (door-to-door canvassing and literature drop off) are NOWHERE to be found."

Mad: Ahhh, yes; churchoids jump up and down yelling how much they love Jeeeeezzzzzzzzuuuuussssss- yet ignore what he taught, as well as his Command. And those LISTENING to them are ridiculed. What 'Gospel' is CHURCHianity preaching thruout the world?

Believe in the Triune God or They will BBQ you for all eternity! (And one of them has RISEN!!!!!!)---and THAT only to those wandering into their buildings!

Yawn

isaacaustin

Deputy Dog said:

Isaac

I'm glad I'm just like the criminal before God, having faith only in the promise and not my works.

My reply:

Me too! Romans very clearly says that if works justify man has grounds to boast, BUT man can never have grounds to boating before God.

1

1 What then can we say that Abraham found, our ancestor according to the flesh?

2

2 Indeed, if Abraham was justified on the basis of his works, he has reason to boast; but this was not so in the sight of God.

3

For what does the scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 3

4

A worker's wage is credited not as a gift, but as something due.

5

But when one does not work, yet believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Works produced as a result of faith show who we are to others (man) who can see not faith. God, who reads the heart see our faith and trust apart from our works.

isaacaustin

TheMadJW, many of the messages JWs have preached have been false prophecy. Is that what makes God happy??? Does preaching that millions now living will never die in 1925 make God happy? Or did proclaiming 1914 as the final windup, as per God's dates- not man's bring praise to God? The 1975 insinuations? Or the 1914 generation?

PSacramento

Mad: Ahhh, yes; churchoids jump up and down yelling how much they love Jeeeeezzzzzzzzuuuuussssss- yet ignore what he taught, as well as his Command. And those LISTENING to them are ridiculed. What 'Gospel' is CHURCHianity preaching thruout the world?

Thanks for making my point.

Deputy Dog

Mad: First, when ones dies, their body's referred to as a "DEAD soul". How you can so easily miss the obvious is startling: we should be in Fear the One who will DESTROY souls, by casting them into the SECOND death (gehenna) from which there will BE no resurrection nor ransom.

That would make understanding this verse rather difficult, don't you think?

Mat 10:28

And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Ge·hen'na.

This verse seems to indicate that "the body" ( so¯ma) and "the soul" ( psuche¯) are separate, even using the word "both" ( kai) to distinguish between the two .

Also, you refer to the "SECOND death". I take it that you believe "Gehenna" does not always mean the common grave of man?

What 'Gospel' is CHURCHianity preaching thruout the world?

I've been teaching simple faith in the good news Christ gave the criminal or the "FIRM PROMISE", and JWs give me a hard time about it. Just like you did here:

He must be incapatated and dying....

Are you telling me, I must be "incapatated and dying" to qualify for the "FIRM PROMISE" of Luke 23?

Deputy Dog

Isaac

Thanks! Very clearly taught.

isaacaustin

Dialog of MadJW and Deputy Dog:

He must be incapatated and dying....

Are you telling me, I must be "incapatated and dying" to qualify for the "FIRM PROMISE" of Luke 23?

My reply: Can you direct me scripturally to where if one is incapacitated and dying simply faith and trust saves, whereas to one who is healthy works must be performed?

Deputy Dog

Isaac

My reply: Can you direct me scripturally to where if one is incapacitated and dying simply faith and trust saves, whereas to one who is healthy works must be performed?

Actually here's some I seem to qualify for:

Mat 9:12

But when he heard it, he said, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13Go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."

Mar 2:17

And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."

Luk 5:31

And Jesus answered them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 32I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."

I know with all my sin, I'm sure not righteous. Paul says, I'm like the criminal, in this way:

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-- 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved-- 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Wasn't the criminal in Luke 23, cursed just like Adam in the garden. Meaning - Doomed to die?

If I'm like the criminal and recieve the "FIRM PROMISE" as a gift, I have no works to boast about.

Are the JWs made healthy by the works of the WT, in no need of a physician, like the Pharisees were by the works of the flesh?

isaacaustin

Deputy, those texts you just quoted fully explain James chapter 2

Verse 20 says:

20

Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?

The next verse however is key:

21

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?

Abraham could not be justifed to God by his works- that would directly contradict Ephesians 2. Works show our faith to others, but certainly do not save or justify to God.

Do any of you still believe in 'Hellfire'? heh

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