Respectable People in Hell - A "How To" Guide

by Perry 78 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  PSacramento

  PSacramento,

  I know what you mean. But, I'm sure you already know that Grace isn't Grace if it is deserved.

  Just let the Lord live his life through you and enjoy his victories.

  God Bless You

  I know Perry, it just isn't that easy.

  For too long I had the notion of doing things to be loved, to be worthy and because I failed I would rebel and do worse.

  Grace was the hardest thing for me to grasp but when I did...I saw it in the love I have for my kids and I understood it in the love God has for us.

  I am still a work in progress though :)

  You should use that line on a dating site for married christians.

  LOL !
  Funny but...dating for married christians...I mean..married and dating other people ???
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  Deputy Dog

  Perry

  Good thread. I have to take exception with a few things:

  Though all born-again believers have eternal life, some will be rewarded more than others based on their performance.

  I don't think you can show this from the scripture. While I agree that some will be rewarded more than others, those rewards and performances will be based only on the GRACE of GOD.

  As for the topic of death, the WT butchers it in many ways. But, your understanding or teaching, doesn't take into account the condition of the soul at birth, (or the condition of the soul of Adam and Eve after they ate of the fruit) which is dead. The soul remains dead until God gives life through faith in Christ.

  The souls you speak about in Revelation 6 are not dead in this sense, they were made alive in Christ before their martyrdom.

  All that being said, this was a great little gem.

  The AWWs who wrote the New Word Translation changed the word of God to say this:

  For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin. Rom. 6: 7 NWT

  Instead of accepting the offer of the re-birth and enjoying the benefits of that transaction even now, the re-birth is rejected and this scripture is used to teach that a person can atone for himself and escape a future judgment, simply by dying.

  The word “acquitted” has a legal connotation the bible writer did not intend and if a person could acquit himself of his sins simply by dying….why in the world would we need Jesus to die in our place?

  If someone could gain acquittal by their own death, than the JWs are doing a disservice by preaching to people. They should let them die in ignorance and be resurrected into the kingdom.

  A side note. As for our little shadow. You have to understand that fear is the overwhelming factor in everyone of his posts. His fear of hell runs so deep that his only reason for coming to this forum is to eradicate it. He is so scared he can't let one thread get by. He will call you names, make fun of you, and disrupt every thread that even discusses the topic.
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  isaacaustin

  Deputy Dog said: If someone could gain acquittal by their own death, than the JWs are doing a disservice by preaching to people. They should let them die in ignorance and be resurrected into the kingdom.

  My reply: I agree completely. It stems out of taking a verse out of context that speaks of one's dying as to their old self, dying as to sin. If the WT was correct on this the JW preaching campaigne should stop immediately. Why condemn 99.9% of the poulation to death when they can simply die and cleanse themselves?
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  isaacaustin

  Perry, thanks. Check your email.
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  Perry

  Isaac,

  That was awesome. Thank You. Wife loved it too. Excellent point on your last post as well.

  Deputy Dog,

  I enjoy your posts as well. About the rewards, the Judgment Seat of Christ is well established in Scripture. See Bema Seat. And Judgment Seat of Christ.
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  Perry

  Open Mind thinks that God will send people to Hell for not loving him. Just for clarification: Sin is the cause of death (separation of the soul from the body)...specifically, that separation causes the disconnect from the Source of Life, hence physical decay.

  Now, we are not animals, we judge others but usually not ourselves. Because we are moral creatures, we are on the hook for a moral judgment ourselves. That is only fair.

  Perhaps when "all the Liars" are cast into the lake of fire after the Great White Throne Judgment, which is the destiny of everyone who has sinned and doesn't claim Christ as a Mediator, then maybe annihlation occurs for the soul at that time... I don't know. There is little to base that on and it certainly is a losing proposition anyway.

  But one thing is for sure, Hell is not the final destiny for the unrighteous. Hell is simply a type of holding cell for the souls of the accused awaiting trial.

  The Watchtower idea that the unrighteous will be ressurrected on a paradise earth is pure fantasy designed to put people to sleep spiritually.

  Question for Open Mind: By what moral principle could you condemn someone for lying to you, and yet expect God to do otherwise to you?
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  isaacaustin

  Thanks Perry. :)
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  isaacaustin

  Well said there Perry. We are not sent to hell because we did or didn't do this or that. We are sent to hell because of sin- it is what we all deserve. Jesus paid the price for us- not because we earned it or deserved it. By his grace we can be covered- not because we deserve it or because of what we have done. A bit pressed for time here so really can't do a better post at this time.
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  designs

  Perry, you make the assumption that if someone doesn't believe as you do they are not christian or a theist. Most Denominations have moved on from your view which was borrowed from so many ancient cultures and coopted into christianity. The Orthodox Eastern churches do not believe as you do, the Church of Rome is rapidly moving away from the Dantesque picture, Protestants wised up during the 20th century, why?

  Look at the damage done to civilization by those Faiths and Belief systems that held to a God who tortures. Islam, Hindu, Dark Age European Catholics and Protestants etc.. Groups that developed concepts of cruel gods were writing their own license for cruelty in their behavior, can you even see that connection. One object of this forum is to point out dangerous religions, one we were a part of.

  In the case of you Fundamentalists you are stuck in a mind trap, your denominational ancestors were arguing for 6 Literal creative days only a few decades ago, some still cling to such a reading of Genesis in the face of the Jews who wrote the account telling them its an allegory.

  Go figure what that kind of mentality and psychological hold Fundamentalism has on certain people.

  Danger Will Robinson, danger
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  Chalam

  Many cool posts and food for though here :)

  Thanks for the heads up regarding the NWT distortion here

  For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin. Rom. 6: 7 NWT

  I had been wondering where they get that from The JW belief "death pays for sin"

  Deputy Dog I don't think you can show this from the scripture. While I agree that some will be rewarded more than others, those rewards and performances will be based only on the GRACE of GOD.

  OK see how this fits? Matthew 25:14-30

  Or these? Revelation 22:12, 2 John 1:8 , Ephesians 6:8, Colossians 3:23-25, 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 , 1 Corinthians 3:8 , Luke 6:35, Matthew 16:27, Matthew 6:18, Matthew 6:6, Matthew 6:3-5

  Agreed, whatever we do is by Grace but neither can we ignore our responsibilities with what we have been entrusted. I received a rebuke from the Lord once on that score that I won't forget in a hurry.

  Blessings,

  Stephen