What hope is there then?

by sayitsnotso 290 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  undercover

  Okay, SINS...

  You admitted that the Society was wrong about it's predictions.

  You asked where it is that the WTS claims to be inspired prophets. Sacolton provided just a few of the many references where the WTS calls itself "prophet" and it has long claimed to be spirit-directed which is the same as being inspired.

  Leaving aside all the other distractions of all the other issues that the WTS has, this is enough evidence to prove that the WTS is not acting as God's organization.

  Now...if you continue to defend the WT/JWs as the one true religion, you are either playing the board or you're intellectually dishonest...not willing to accept what's being provided and analyzing it against your long held beliefs.

  14 pages and still not any indication that maybe, just maybe, you could've been wrong or that the WTS is not God's organization.

  If you are sincere and just this thick headed, I hope you wake up one day.

  Good luck and adios
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  sayitsnotso

  Okay a few thoughts:

  1) I'm here on this forum because I have some doubts deep down inside about what I've been taught is really the 'truth.' I think that is obvious. The 12 points I listed are the things that make sense to me about what a religion that is pleases to God and based on the bible should believe.

  2) Yet, despite that 12-point list, I can see that the GB's claim to being led by the Jehovah is becomming harder and harder to believe. They don't really know anything more than we do about the nearness of the end. Yet at every convention the information provided stressess more and more how close we are. I forget exactly where, at the special day assembly, it was mentioned that a certain scripture Jehovah was, via the holy spirit, helping the GB to understand that it was applying to our time right now. It had to do with either getting ready for the end or building our faith up stronger. Something like that. Everyone seems to be talking about the nearness of the end more than any other topic.

  3) My defensive statements here are simply because this is what I have been taught. I've been told apostates resort to lies and half-truths, want to make decipiles of themselves, are bitter, want the org to change it's stance on matters (blood, disfellowshipping, etc) because it affects them directly not because of doctrinal soundness, that they are unhappy, that they are poison, etc. So obviously I have a strong sckeptisim to what is said here. I've also been told not to listen to what apostates say (obvisouly). However, how can one truly claim to have an open mind, to be reaonsable, and to seek truth, without looking at all sides of an issue?

  4) All my family and friends are in the truth. I love them all dearly. If I stopped, I am certain they would not listen as they do not seem to have any doubts what so ever and are very much caught up in the 'we-are-so-close' mentality, save perhaps one. I'm very active right now and if I slowed down I know that would raise some red flags.

  5) I also have considered that perhaps many of the things people doubt about being true about the 'truth' are indeed incorrect, but perhaps Jehovah is allowing this to test people's loyalty to his organization (if the god's organization claim is true). Yes, JWs are hung up on this point and how can you blaim them? It's been so ingrained!

  6) I still feel the GB though is not being malicious. I think they are scincere. They have had all these concepts ingrained in them for so long now. I think they really believe they are trying to protect God's people. I think some people look to deeply for dirt on them (i.e. REGI. U.S. stock).

  7) It's obvious that the org is not perfect. That many have the mentality of following men. An people do get mistreated at times. Yet there are also many sincere people that are happy and like to help others. These seem to be the majority of the very active ones. These are the ones I enjoy being around and add happiness to my own life. So to leave this behind would be very difficult to do.
• 

  sir82

  I still feel the GB though is not being malicious. I think they are scincere.

  Reading "Crisis of Conscience" ought to cure you of that!
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  PSacramento

  John 6:48-58

  For an FYI:

  48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

  52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

  53 Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
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  PSacramento

  What about "To obey is better than a sacrifice?" - 1 Sam 15:22 If one disobeys God to save their life wouldn't this damage his relationship with God? Are you saying all the christans that chose to die instead of renounce their faith to the Romans died in vain? That it would have been okay to do so since life is more important? If Jehovah prohibts misuse of blood today, how is using it to save life any different?

  You want to Obey God?

  Great - Thou shall not kill and that includes YOURSELF and allowing yourself or others to die when they cna be saved is killing and that is WRONGin the eyes of God.

  Don't ever confuse the persecution of christians with what the JW's do, that is an insult to all the christians that were martyred.
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  isaacaustin

  sayitsnotso,

  I am glad you are here, and do understand that it in itsef is a major step for you. If there is anything you want to discuss one on via via private messages feels free to send me a private message and I will reply. Simply click on my name, then on the next screen click on 'send message'.
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  PSacramento

  sayitsnotso,

  You are trying to justify staying in an organization that is misleading people, that is manipulating and controling their lives, you are doing the very think that JW's say the "apostates of Christendom" are doing.

  Your first mistake was thinking that ANYONE has the right to judge anyone else, we don't and no one is certainly judging you.

  We do, however, have the right to judge and organization, ANY ORGANIZATION, base don what they teach and what they do and the results of those things.

  JW's are good people, they are mislead and confused and do things that sadden God and Jesus, but they do that because they are under the influence of a man ran organization, much like the RC under the Vatican.

  You must free yourself from the organization of MAN and find your freedon in Christ, the ONLY path to God for a Christian, for ALL christians.
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  leavingwt

  sayitsnotso -- Take an outsider's perspective. This is the brutally honest course. Clean slate. They come to your door. They give the pitch. Then, you set out to research their claims. What do you discover?

  1 -- The average member is completely unaware of the history of WT.

  2 -- Once on official member (baptized), they are forbidden to read anything critical of leadership. (Information Control)

  3 -- Members are asked to follow instructions that don't make sense (blind loyalty)

  Once you perform this Outsider Test, you must ask yourself if joining would be the right thing to do.

  You are very right about one thing: Your friends and loved ones do NOT need to find out about your research and the things you are learning. It would be wise to wait months or years, at the right time, before assisting them with seeing any of WT's faults. They will (as trained) instantly suspect you are disloyal or apostate, at the mere suggestion that the 'Slave' is wrong about something.

  People are recruited into the WT organization. It's a slow process, in which slowly the publisher begins to think that WT = God. Counsel and rules are accepted without questioning. There is no safety mechanism against poor or unBiblical decisions on the part of leadership. Their authority is total.

  Keep searching and praying. You'll find what you need to find. Most of us have been exactly where you are. It's quite devastating. Hang in there.
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  goldensky

  Dear Sayitsnoso, I've believed you were sincere from the beginning and this last post sweeps any doubts I might have harboured. There's something I want to tell you: if you read my story (by clicking on my name and reading my first thread), you'll see just one example of somebody who loved the truth and Jehovah's organization very, very deeply. There are many like me on this board. It wasn't without a very tough inner struggle that many of us finally admitted the evidence. Although my research throughout these last 10 months has changed my feelings somewhat, I still believe most JWs are sincere and kind-hearted people (many don't agree and I respect their point of view). But all our hopes were based on false premises, I have no doubt of that now. At this point I consider all JW to be victims, including those in the Governing Body, although I'm willing to admit there may even be one or two who don't believe what they are teaching any more. But being sincere doesn't make them right. I fully understand your seven points. You seem to be quite open-minded and I admire you for that. You've done well joining this board. I wish you all the best. Hugs, OLGA.
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  shopaholic

  "Decide what you want your life to be, how you want to live, how you want to feel. Then work towards that everyday." - Dagney