France to Fine Women Wearing Full-Faced Islamic Veils

by leavingwt 54 Replies latest social current

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises

    Interestingly, as soon as the Communists fell, the Russian Orthdox Church emerged, stronger than ever.

    The Russian Orthodox church was just as strong during the communist years. It's just that through lack of information/communication, we in the West didn't know it. The church has always been part of Russian govt, communist or not.

  • Finally-Free
    Finally-Free

    Since we're a nation of equals, maybe men should rise up in protest. Why are burkas only for women? Why can't men go into malls, banks, and government offices with our faces covered without people staring and just assuming we're criminals? Maybe we need an international "male burka month".

    W

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Please prove to me with factual details why Islam is such a threat. We are discussing the religion Islam, not Al-Qaeda. Maybe I'm an idiot. I notice too much touchy, feely without details. How is Islam more of a threat now than when the Marines were first called to foreign shores in Tripoli? What about North Korea, no paragon of religious freedom. China. Why is one religion more of a threat?

    Are you aware that Moslem Americans were also slaughtered at the World Trade Center and probably at the Pentagon, too?

    Visit a major city and be aware that you are interacting with them and they with you with no problems. I recall when the latest horror was the Red Scare, which never existed. Yes, we had communist spies. Our fears to expel all communist taint led us to Viet Nam. We lost expertise we could not regain for generations. Civil rights workers in the South unhinged Americans. It was the end of the end.

    It is one thing to be afraid. I am very afraid. In fact, I shook with terror b/c many of the buildings I normally frequent were of high strategic value to Al-Qaeda. I did not know it until later but the FBI was monitoring several of my regular haunts. Rational people should distance themselves from their unwarranted fears. Bob Dylan, Masters of War. With God on Our Side.

    God is Jesus. well, Jehovah. God is Allah. In WWI and WWII, the combatants prayed to the same God using the same liturgy and doctrines. I don't have answers but I know to ask questions.

  • J. Hofer
    J. Hofer

    because "al-qaida" are islamists. not christians or hindus or buddhists. and a majority moslems all around the world does NOT condemn their actions. just look what happens when someone draws a cartoon of mohammed.

    the recent revolutions in arab countries will bring some change, but noone knows if it'll be for the better or the worse.

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    SORRY! *** thought it was a thread about "Fine Women" in "France" ***

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I don't want to be preachy but I am passionate. Moslems today, me tomorrow. Worshippers of Allah who recognize Mohammed as the Prophet and use the Koran as their sacred book are not Islamists. No one ever used Islamist until the ignorant right wing stir up the base emerge. Focus on Moslems as a threat distracts people from the much more pressing issues facing America. Health care, Social Security, our national debt, our declining educationa system, ecological disasters, corruption in public office. It is propogana. A code word like "n....er" that strikes out our collective fears rather than our better natures. The correct word is Moslem, Muslim, followers of Islam.

    There seems to be a strong correlation between a very ignorant, unsophisticated view of Islam and the nutty birthers. There are no grand concepts. Rather, it is baseless fear. When I hear Donald Trump or Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin go on about their teabag beliefs, I cringe. They know better. Hitler knew better. Lenin knew better. The Ku Klux Klan used fear. So did the Nazis. The regular Americans who share this view are in a different category. They sincerely believe. I wonder where they ever received an education.

    Immediately after 9.11, I wanted Afghanistan nuked asap. I never knew such rage. The only thing that comes close is my rage towards the Witnesses. Arghanistan military conflict was essential. People cannot walk away with impunity. Iraq was a major blunder. I am no longer a peacenik.

  • J. Hofer
    J. Hofer

    well, i'm not american and i had/have strong opinions against the irak and afghanistan wars, but muslims who cover their wives in burkas ARE islamists, and thus are a threat. they'd kill their own daughter, sister, wife for "honor" and think it's the best way to please god. and you don't hear other muslims complain a lot.

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    muslims who cover their wives in burkas ARE islamists, and thus are a threat. they'd kill their own daughter, sister, wife for "honor" and think it's the best way to please god. and you don't hear other muslims complain a lot.

    This is my problem with the religion - these customs are a throwback to the middle ages, and as said above - you don't hear many other muslims complaining about this very much.

    Remember, we had a thread a few days ago about Iran wanting to ban ownership of dogs and cats!

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Please educate me and show me any responsible web site, newspaper, scholarly article that calls them Islamists. Right wing nut sites don't count, anymore than a Maoist sight would count.

    The issues in France are not limited to France. It is an extremely fallacy to consider France's actions limited to France. Around the world, governments have come to grips with their inheirited notions of religious freedom. France has laicite. (with accent marks), based on some particulars of French history. Most European countries adopted some form of laicite to protect individuals from coercive religions. If I were French, my views would probably be different. If I were Chinese or Indian, I doubt I woulld be Christian. The reality of my life is that I am American. Because I lived in NY, I thought I was pseudo-European and was proud. I'd rather live in Europe than anyplace besides NY, Boston or San Francisco. I take the 9.11 attacks very seriously because my life was shaken to the core. But for the grace of God b/c I lived downtown and worked one block from Ground Zero. Al-Qaeda made me define myself as a full American.

    Al-Qaeda is a threat. A threat that cannot ever be won by Bush's tactics. We need to reinforce moderate Moslems so they will be more comfortable clearly condemning the attacks. Most moderate Moslems expressly were angered and condemned the terrorism. As I noted, Moslems were also vicitms. Christians have done unspeakable acts far worse than the cartoon incident. American imperialism and attitudes helped create this situation. I want the US to be dominant militarily and the economic power. If we start to show respect for Islam, maybe they will not seethe with rage. Rage is not an element of Moslem. Mohammed encourage rage no more than did Jesus. How many people condemning Islam have read the Koran in English?

    I know from my personal experiences in Manhattan that diverse peoples can live in peace even if they don't agree on everything. To focus on the radicals, is to know the countless millions of Moslems who respect Christianity. Mohammed expressly respected Christianity in the Koran. I saw illustrations of Mohammed meeting with Christians at my local art museum.

    We are threatened by some sick individuals formed into terrorist cells. Islam is no threat. Calling them Islamist throws fuel on the fire. The only way is to calm down, not cede our liberties to them or to our fears, and respect them. Mohammed called for this. Hitler was a Christian. Do we want ourselves defined as Nazis just b/c HItler was a Christian.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Band on the Run:

    No one ever used Islamist until the ignorant right wing stir up the base emerge.

    Below is a recent example of the term "Islamist" used by the NY Times.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/31/world/middleeast/31inspire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

    From the context, it would appear that the NY Times is using the term as it is defined by PBS in their online glossary, linked below.

    "Islamist is a term used to identify a Muslim fundamentalist."

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/teach/alqaeda/glossary.html

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