Why FAITH is actually a form of suicide (page 7)

Terry

I consider it a privilege to be informed about the most influential book in Western civilization (the Bible).

I consider it a necessity to examine the history of the religious result of its influences.

I consider it a tragedy that I fell in a very deep ideological hole and lost my mind and my life for awhile. Much of my youth was utterly wasted.

I consider it very fortunate I was disfellowshipped.

I consider it incumbent upon me to point out what I've learned as a result of my having made a more skeptical examination of these matters.

I consider it a moral duty to alert anybody who will listen about the self-destructive effects of FAITH and belief.

If you accept anything into your life, your head, your mind, your world view which is CONTRADICTORY to reality you are destroying yourself.

Remember just this one little thing: Nobody can take over your mind until they cause you to doubt its effectiveness or the necessity of logical, rational non-contradictory thought.

It starts with the use of words without actual referents to real things.

It starts with metaphors instead of definitions.

It makes sweeping statements in the most general of terms and avoids specificity.

Here is an example: "To save your life you must lose it." "Love your enemies."

If you have ever been in any form of Christian belief system you will be totally UNable to see the contradictory, unrealistic and deadly message because you are instantly influenced (subliminal programming) away from the obvious irrationality contained therein.

leavingwt

Terry -- Rock on, man, I hear you. Even if everyone doesn't always agree with you, your message is important and great food for thought, IMHO.

tec

I'm trying to understand if you think everyone with faith is self-destructive 'suiciders'. And I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what you mean by self-destructive behavior.

Can you give a few specific examples of this behavior? Because at is stands, everything you're saying sounds sweeping and general to me.

Tammy

PSacramento

If you have ever been in any form of Christian belief system you will be totally UNable to see the contradictory, unrealistic and deadly message because you are instantly influenced (subliminal programming) away from the obvious irrationality contained therein.

Huge blanket statement Terry.

Here is an example: "To save your life you must lose it." "Love your enemies."

Worked for Ghandi and MLK jr.

cyberjesus

Worked for Ghandi and MLK jr.

Does this qualify as an Appeal to Authority? Yay, I think I am learning :-)

alert anybody who will listen about the self-destructive effects of FAITH and belief

I like this, "the self-destructing effects of FAITH",

If you have ever been in any form of Christian belief system you will be totally UNable to see the contradictory, unrealistic and deadly message because you are instantly influenced (subliminal programming) away from the obvious irrationality contained therein.

I think the effect is felt by ALL of us that were born in a Christian country, perhaps even the world. Our whole world and daily life is shape by religion, and religion is self-destructive as well. The name of the days, our calendar, our legal system, our laws, Religion and its effects are everywhere.

I am sure (i hope) that you even express faith in God within an inch of your skin.. every time we exchange paper money we exchange statements of faith in GOD, Our own freaking bills say "In God we trust". Even if you need the assistance of courts and the law to resolve a matter, we stand in front of a judge who sits behind a big legend stating the same, even there we trust in God to receive justice.

THE REALITY is that religion and faith have destructed already a part of our selfs regardless if we want it or not. I have "Faith" that in the following centuries we as SPECIES continue to evolve and eventually eradicate RELIGION. I have faith that some of my descendants will be born in a world free from the slavery of religion.... (To make sure of that I am trying to leave a lot of descendants) :-)

Terry

I'm trying to understand if you think everyone with faith is self-destructive 'suiciders'. And I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what you mean by self-destructive behavior.

Can you give a few specific examples of this behavior? Because at is stands, everything you're saying sounds sweeping and general to me.

Tammy

Yes, Tammy.

My message on faith is short and simple. If we actively examine the truth and reliability of too-good-to-be-true offers we won't be swindled by them.

Once you activate "faith" you short-circuit skepticism and your bullshit detection system is non-functioning. You are vulnerable.

Locally, a TV evangelist (Brother Bob) was opening envelopes with prayer requests, removing the donation money and throwing the prayer requests in the dumpster. The dumpster contents were raided and Brother Bob was exposed for the lying swindler he was. Bob was "healing" people on the air by praying for them while speaking in tongues (gibberish).

But wait! What about the people who gave their last nickel? Do they bear any responsibility for FAITH in Bob's ability to get results?

FAITH was at work! Non-rational acceptance made the swindle possible. (Side note: Bob is back on TV in another state!)

Another example?

Politics. People who have FAITH in their party (Liberal or Conservative) and who vote a straight ticket get what they deserve.

Mysticism. People consult astrologers, aura readers, people who speak with the "dead", Law of Attraction peddlers, etc. FAITH is non-analytical acceptance. The results are destructive to mental health, financial security and well-being.

Finances. House flippers, borrowing on mortgages, investment schemes, gold investment, etc. Relies on FAITH (non-analytical) in a KNOW-ALL advisor who will make you rich!

Health. Vitamin peddlers, holistic healers, alternative medicine gurus, cancer "cures", diet quacks, exercise machine mavens. FAITH in non-scientific CLAIMS and testimonials instead of actual proof.

FAITH is giving up your right to non-contradiction. FAITH is deuces wild.

Paralipomenon

I'd pretty much agree.

Religion focuses on the afterlife. If you have faith that you will live on in an afterlife, then you have already accepted your physical death as necessary.

It's not immediate, but it's still suicide.

Can't really say I'm much better though. I know I'm going to die and I don't believe in an afterlife so you'd think I'd be taking molecular biology trying to extend my life. A gradual death is easier to accept I guess.

THE GLADIATOR

tec Nice to see you hanging on in there. You asked Terry for a few examples of self-destructive behavior and he has delivered.

My own take on this is that once we put faith in something intangible or non physical we have no definite frame of reference, unless it is scientifically proven. Our imagination can cause us to believe that feelings and thoughts come from outside of ourselves, from an invisible realm. Once this happens we become vulnerable to trickery.

This acceptance of being influenced by an invisible realm or spiritual connection, can slowly cause us to look to this source for answers and guidance, instead of relying on facts, research and provable markers. In this way we gradually impair our rational thought process.

Should we join a group that shares these beliefs, we may adopt a group mentality at the expense of our own autonomy. This can ultimately lead to a loss of our own self determination or self. It has to be said that this loss of self can happen when we become deeply involved with any extreme group or movement, secular or religious. Whether this amounts to 'suicide' is what we have been debating.

PSacramento

Does this qualify as an Appeal to Authority? Yay, I think I am learning :-)

It was an example of two very influential people who, because of their faith, made their mark on the world and those around them, in a very positive way.

Since NEITHER of them veiwed themselves as anything more than anyone else then, no, it is not an appeal to authority.

cyberjesus

PS: But the fact that IT worked for Ghandi or MLK doesnt prove that it works right? Weren't both killed by their enemies whom they loved?

Why FAITH is actually a form of suicide

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