Why FAITH is actually a form of suicide

by Terry 99 Replies latest jw friends

  • tec
    tec

    Terry - thanks for the examples of self-destructive behavior. I don't disagree with you on any of the points you've given. Of course, I see that this just means we have to be very careful about who we place our faith in. That our faith should be examined honestly and critically. But not that faith, itself, is destructive. Only that it can be.

    Exactly like what you said here:

    If we actively examine the truth and reliability of too-good-to-be-true offers we won't be swindled by them.

    Gladiator - Nice to be hanging in there. :) Thanks. I understand the things you wrote. We do become vulnerable to trickery when we place blind acceptance and faith in someone or something. And joining a group does put us at risk for adopting group mentality and sacrificing self. I don't think it absolutely amounts to self sacrifice, although I think that it can - if we lose the ability to question the things that we are told.

    I don't feel like my faith has caused me to sacrifice or suicide my 'self'. Though it seemed I would join for a while, when it came right down to it, I did not join the extremist group I studied with. (JW's)

    I questioned too much. I still do. But I still have my faith.

    I don't think I exhibit these self-destructive behaviors as a result of my faith, but I could have if I had not questioned an organization.

    I don't think my faith causes me to suicide my 'self' - but I do think joining a group and doing what I am told without question would have done this. Except we should keep in mind that suicide is a conscious (if unhealthy) choice. You choose to die. So I would have had to knowingly choose to be sacrificing my 'self'.

    In fact, I did want someone else to do my thinking so that I wouldn't have to search for the 'truth' anymore. There was appeal in that for me. But in the end, I could not join.

    Now I no longer want someone else to do my thinking. I don't trust someone else to do my thinking. I always read the fine print (law, politics, religions, etc)

    Yet I still have faith - in Jesus.

    Tammy

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    PS: But the fact that IT worked for Ghandi or MLK doesnt prove that it works right? Weren't both killed by their enemies whom they loved?

    Indeed they were and both changed the world by loving the "very men" who killed them.

    Changed the world for the better.

    And it was their FAITH that did it.

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus
    I always read the fine print (law, politics, religions, etc)

    What is the fine print on the bible? Have you read that too?

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    An interesting post Tammy.

    You seem to have found a balance that works for you. Just finding a way through life that suits us and makes us feel fulfilled and happy is a major achievement.

    Sometimes the harsh glare of reality is too much to take without sunglasses. We see as much as we are prepared to and progress at a pace that suits us. I have my own abstractions to soften the hard edges.

  • tec
    tec

    Sometimes the harsh glare of reality is too much to take without sunglasses. We see as much as we are prepared to and progress at a pace that suits us. I have my own abstractions to soften the hard edges.

    I agree. Which is why I don't ever think I am done growing or learning. You seem to have found a balance that works for you too.

    What is the fine print on the bible? Have you read that too?

    I don't think the fine prints are actually written in the bible (I would prefer it if they were because then people could decide more rationally for themselves), but I do know them, yes. Translation and actual errors; no original copies. I just don't think that stuff actually changes the important message of love, compassion, mercy and forgiveness.

    Tammy

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    Indeed they were and both changed the world by loving the "very men" who killed them.

    Changed the world for the better.

    And it was their FAITH that did it.

    How can someone love the men who kills him? You mean love the men who is gonna kill them? And if that is the case, can you really love the men who is gonna kill you if by killing you they are also stopping you from continuing your cause?

    Can someone change the world for the better without having faith? are there out there people with no faith but with a lot of good intentions and knowledge and capabilities also changing the world?

    Did Ghandi had Faith?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    How can someone love the men who kills him? You mean love the men who is gonna kill them? And if that is the case, can you really love the men who is gonna kill you if by killing you they are also stopping you from continuing your cause?

    Love as in compassion and having compassion for them, yes.

    Can someone change the world for the better without having faith? are there out there people with no faith but with a lot of good intentions and knowledge and capabilities also changing the world?

    OF course they can, it has never been an either/or situation

    Point is that faith is NOT "suicidal"

    Did Ghandi had Faith?

    Yes, in his faith (hindu), in the faith of others ( if not the followers of those faiths) and faith in humanity.

    As did MLK jr.

    I mention those two because they are well know.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Everyone has some form of unprovable assumption. Faith, you could call it.

    Even science has unprovable assumptions. You have to believe them, or act as if you do. Science itself cannot prove them. They lie outside it's system of logic. They are the fundamental basis for it, however. All logic systems function this way.

    Terry, for example, believes that pure reason and logic lead to the best outcomes.

    Can he prove this? An element of belief underpins his view.

    If guess that if we were take a utilitarian approach, we could say that we should try to choose to believe that which creates the greatest amount of good.

    BTS

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt
    If guess that if we were take a utilitarian approach, we could say that we should try to choose to believe that which creates the greatest amount of good.

    Well, then we'd have to define "good". Many are unwilling to do this, without bringing their favorite deity into the picture.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Many are unwilling to do this, without bringing their favorite deity into the picture.

    Everybody has a "deity."

    BTS

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