Jesus disses corporation-led religion?? (page 6)

PSacramento

Well said Tammy :)

The thing is that, and this is not only in regards to religion, when we decide to organize something, we do it with the best of intentions, but we are so set in our ways of following an heiarchy that we just naturally fall into it and what do we get?

Governing Bodies, council of cardinals, assorted idiots with a superiority complex.

The very thing that makes us humans imperfect and "damaged" in regards to God is this very powerful desrie to CONTROL everything, to have a final say in EVERYTHING, to be the TOP DOG, to bbe "GOD" or at least to be the Channel of God.

This is the very reason that organizations in religions become "corporations" and the very reason said that " all shall be servants and none shall be masters" (paraphrasing).

THE GLADIATOR

PSacramento

This is the problem that people on this thread come up against when they interupt a love in among Christians(whatever they actually are?)

You cover the board with endless threads supporting your faith but when asked for a sensible response, develop sloppy shoulders.

BurnTheShips, one of the chief offenders, says:

What people?

And looks at everyone but himself, then the escape:

However, this is a subject for a different thread. Start it, and I shall make sure your death on the arena is clean, quick, and pleasing to Caesar.

Your response:

Nope, the Book Of Paul is much cooler, it has 3d graphics, semi-clad women, gratuitous sex and a coupon for XXX rated DVD "Fallen."

Slippery as ever. How can you expect us to take you seriously?

SisoNoSiso

It's interesting that people like BTS completely buy into this idea of the Apostles and the Jerusalem elders being in charge of every Christian.

Yet the ones who use this chapter to support the notion of an all-powerful Governing Body fail to recognize that the letter was only sent to three areas of Gentile believers. Were there no other Gentiles anywhere?

They also fail to recognize that Paul, who was not a member of the (fantasaical) Governing Body in Jerusalem, later told the believers in Rome that 'no food is in itself unclean', even specifically mentioning it being up to individuals whether or not they would eat meat previously sacrificed to idols. So it went from being a hard-and-fast Governing Body rule in Acts 15 to a purely conscience matter in Romans 14. Hmm...

Paul also ordered Christians not to braid their hair or wear earrings. And that he didn't permit women to teach, that they should learn in silence. Do Catholics and JWs uphold the purity of these "inspired" rulings, or do they conveniently brush them aside as the musings of a good man?

To hold the Bible as this literal guide and then to pick and choose which verses others should live by is dishonest, hypocritical, and cheap.

SisoNoSiso

Also, when Jesus was hanging with his 12, they saw a man performing miracles. His followers wanted Jesus to stop the man, since he wasn't in their group. Jesus laid down his idea of a true follower, "Anyone who is not against you is for you." (Luke 9:50)

If it was so important to be inside the selected group, why did Jesus react as he did? If Jesus and Paul acted as the model for Christians, and both went their own way even when the "leadership" went another, what does that tell us about the place of organized religion and unquestioned authority structure?

not a captive

So more people are turning to Christ without an affiliation with any organization. Sometimes they gather together, in person or on forums like this one, but they are keeping their faith in Christ and Christ alone. History and personal experiences have taught people that organizations are made of men, and too many of them are not worthy of trust.

All we can do is to do our best to live according to the love and mercy that Jesus taught.

Tammy, It seems to me that that is what Jesus expected to happen. Paul tried to set reasonable , practical guidelines. But as he so often says, most particularly in Galatians, do not fall back law. Faith and the Spirit will hold the Body together.

"My church doesn't bother me". If that is the highest praise we have of our present church then it proves the violence faith suffers under institutional deacons, institutional elders, institutional overseers, institutional "food". Christian gatherings do not benefit believers when we can repeat proper doctrine and no longer have faith in the son of the living God.

Can such a thing as church "work" without the impersonal hierarchy of religion? Only if there is holy spirit.

As far the problem of how to safe guard the congregations against the wolves: Apparently Jesus thought that a dedicated and healthy disciple would be well able to distinguish the difference between a true christian and a wolf--mainly because the truly dedicated have good motive "By their fruits you will know them."is how believers protect themselves. Much as you considered how you felt about the issues on this thread before you waded into it. You have good motive. and no body can make that happen in you. That this perceptive power is vested in each believer makes sense-- for any who gravitate toward such a false teacher, what can you do to stop them any way? Their heart is involved.

As far the thought of not fellowshipping with a person who has made themself an enemy of the faith? As I understand how Jesus viewed those who "hear the will of God and do it" Jesus envisioned more latitude in christian brotherhood than we now have in churches (Mark 9:38-50)

Is brotherhood an institutionally mandated relationship or a reasonable relationship considering the shared dedication and love we have for God and man? There is no fear factor in the counsel to associate with others who are seeking the Way of Christ and who are not in our "denomination" (I belong to Apollos, I belong to Paul!) Losing rigid conformity makes a genuine conversation about the way of God not only possible but more likely. Between believers and non-believers alike.

Just look at this forum.

Finally, it seems to me that when a person act as a Christian, God gets the Glory.

When we work for an institution the institution gets top billing--never God.

Holy spirit has to work to make Jesus Way clear for us. We'll fight forever if only the words in a book lead our way.

This is what I missed in the WTS

tec

I think everything is a matter of conscience. That's why Jesus focused on 'cleaning the inside of the cup and then the outside will also be clean.' Why he said if you even looked at another woman in lust, you had already committed adultery with her in your heart. But if you learn humility, love, forgiveness and mercy, then you no longer need any rules or laws.

The law is then written on your conscience. You won't want to cause harm to anyone, out of love. More than that, you will want to help others, out of that same love.

And you won't need an organization to tell you what you should and shouldn't do.

Tammy

not a captive

Hello, SisoNoSiso! Welcome.

I note your mention of Luke 9:50--it is the same account that appears in Mark 9:38-50 which I have in my last post.

that the chief role of institutional religion is to safeguard orthodoxy. Jesus was WAY more generous toward folks not in the "mainstream" or "in the know" than his own disciples were.

Maeve

SisoNoSiso

NAC, thanks.

Since leaving the WT, I've come to understand a different Jesus than was taught me for three decades. And as you say, a much more generous and lenient Jesus as well.

If only modern Christian religions stuck with his model...

THE GLADIATOR

SisoNoSiso

To hold the Bible as this literal guide and then to pick and choose which verses others should live by is dishonest, hypocritical, and cheap.

Well said. Pointing out the contradictions in Christan rhetoric will not make you popular.

Truth is a sword that divides, according to the Bible. That 'inspired Holy word of God' that BTS has declared is not the hand-book for Christians. The Koran perhaps?

tec

Is brotherhood an institutionally mandated relationship or a reasonable relationship considering the shared dedication and love we have for God and man?

I think you know my answer, and I think we're on the same page with this. I just hesitate to knock all churches, because I know people who derive a great deal of comfort and encouragement from theirs. They may not be aware of all the doctrines that their particular 'brand' stands for... they just want to show love for Jesus and draw comfort in the best way that they know how.

On a purely personal note, I am uncomfortable in a church setting - but I do know the doctrines, and I also think all the rules go against what I said in my above post.

We (organizations or individuals) should be teaching and practicing love of man and God first and foremost, through Jesus, and then everything else should fall into place.

Tammy

Jesus disses corporation-led religion??

Share this