hey mad, do you believe this qoute? "In John 1:1, the Word is not the one-and-only God, but is a god, or divine being."
Who really is Michael the Archangel?
by theMadJW 309 Replies latest jw friends
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theMadJW
Booby- Christ REPRESENTS and SPEAKS FOR the ONLY true God.
And he said ONLY his FATHER was.
Agree?
TD- I do not speak churchese, nor your fabricated interpretation of Greek- so NO- I have nothing for you. NO translation reads as you imply they SHOULD, and God did NOT inspire a writing we'd have to study Greek to understand.
Facts:
1-Jesus is NOT the Supreme Being- or one of three 'Almighties'
2-He Speaks for his God and Father as the Word, thus is the ULTIMATE Messenger (Angel)
3-He is the Leader of the angels (Archangel)
4-He has been promoted to an even HIGHER position (King of Kings)
5-He had a name BEFORE being given the name "Jesus"
What that name was is obvious to ANY to see the above FACTS, without perverting them with opinion, as you.
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Deputy Dog
MadJW
I ALWAYS answer a question...
Lets try a 4th time.
Did a human messenger (angel) appear? Yes,
I didn't ask what "appeared". I want to know what came down? I asked what Jesus was referring to, when he said HE came down. If Jesus said something came down, something came down, I believe him over you.
God, Christ, and angels are all beings of SPIRIT ("breath, wnd" in Hebrew & Greek)
Did this "being of SPIRIT" come down... and indwell a MAN?
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booby
See the problem mad? in using this source to support their "a god" notion they also show how that same source says he is a divine being. I don't think they subscribe to that notion do they?
***w094/1p.19IsJesusGod?***
Identityof"theWord"?
Many Greek scholars and Bible translators acknowledge that John 1:1 highlights, not the identity, but a quality of "the Word." Says Bible translator William Barclay: "Because [the apostle John] has no definite article in front of theos it becomes a description . . . John is not here identifying the Word with God. To put it very simply, he does not say that Jesus was God." Scholar Jason David BeDuhn likewise says: "In Greek, if you leave off the article from theos in a sentence like the one in John 1:1c, then your readers will assume you mean 'a god.' . . . Its absence makes theos quite different than the definite hotheos, as different as 'a god' is from 'God' in English." BeDuhn adds: "In John 1:1, the Word is not the one-and-only God, but is a god, or divine being." Or to put it in the words of Joseph Henry Thayer, a scholar who worked on the AmericanStandardVersion: "The Logos [or, Word] was divine, not the divine Being himself."
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TD
God did NOT inspire a writing we'd have to study Greek to understand.
???
What language did He inspire it in?
Literal translations are closest to the original Greek, but the result is sometimes awkward, incomplete English.
I suppose if someone is not willing to deal with the fact that a literal translation doesn't always use words the exact same way the average person would, then they could go with a paraphrase translation instead:
The Master himself will give the command. Archangel thunder! God's trumpet blast! He'll come down from heaven and the dead in Christ will rise—they'll go first. -- The Message
With a loud command and with the shout of the chief angel and a blast of God's trumpet, the Lord will return from heaven. Then those who had faith in Christ before they died will be raised to life. --Contemporary English Version
There will be the shout of command, the archangel's voice, the sound of God's trumpet, and the Lord himself will come down from heaven. Those who have died believing in Christ will rise to life first; --Today's English Version
One word of command, one shout from the archangel, one blast from the trumpet of God and the Lord himself will come down from Heaven! Those who have died in Christ will be the first to rise, --JB Phillip's New Testament
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theMadJW
DD, Christ came down as a PERSON- how we can only speculate.
No God-Fetus, no Angel-Fetus- just a Fetus!
Booby- crticize any source you wish; I answered you from scripture- which, as usual, is being ignored!
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theMadJW
TD, WHY are you WANTING to believe Jesus WASN"T speaking as Archangel?
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booby
hey mad - If Jesus is "a god" can he be also an angel? You said I criticize but I thought I was just commenting. Anyway I realize I might be off base here. I am assuming that you are pro jw. sorry if I am wrong on that but if not I was using their article to show how complex this can all get.
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theMadJW
No prob, Booby- thanks for puttin up with me; the deceivers have hardened me!
In greek the word 'god' theos is used often with 'the' ton used with it when referring to the only TRUE God, as Jesus put it.
Jesus is the IMAGE of God- not 'the real thing'! He REPRESENTS God, thus is called a god.
Satan is the god of this world.
God called the judges of Israel 'gods', as noted by Christ, and Moses AS 'God'.
NONE have the Name of Jehovah, who is truly the ONLY true God! (Jesus subjects himself to Him!)