Who really is Michael the Archangel? (page 7)

theMadJW

DD babbled: " The real issue is not "who Jesus or Micheal are" but "what". Why won't JWs answer the question?"

I ALWAYS answer a question, DD- lay it oN me!

nancy drew

Will the real michael the archangel please stand up

Deputy Dog

Think About It

So you agree with the posted article and reference material from the Theologian founders of the Presbyterians (Calvin) and Methodists (Wesley) that Michael and Jesus are the same person? In that case the "what" is answered...

No it's not. There are many Old Testament preincarnate appearances of Christ.

For example we see the Angel of the LORD identified as God himself:

Exo 3:1

Now Moses was keeping the flock of his father-in-law, Jethro, the priest of Midian, and he led his flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, "I will turn aside to see this great sight, why the bush is not burned." 4When the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am." 5 Then he said, "Do not come near; take your sandals off your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground." 6 And he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

7 Then the LORD said, "I have surely seen the affliction of my people who are in Egypt and have heard their cry because of their taskmasters. I know their sufferings, 8 and I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land to a good and broad land, a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 9 And now, behold, the cry of the people of Israel has come to me, and I have also seen the oppression with which the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come, I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring my people, the children of Israel, out of Egypt." 11 But Moses said to God, "Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the children of Israel out of Egypt?" 12 He said, "But I will be with you, and this shall be the sign for you, that I have sent you: when you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall serve God on this mountain." 13 Then Moses said to God, "If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' what shall I say to them?" 14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

There are many Old Testament teachings where Yahweh is applied to Christ in the New Testament.

Christ shares the attributes of Yahweh. He is unchangeable (Ps 102:21-27; Mal 3:6 & Heb 1:10-12, 13:8), eternal (Ps 90:2 & Isa 9:6; Mic 5:2) and omnipotent (Jer 32:17,27 & Mt 28:18; Rev 1:8).

Christ shares the work of Yahweh. He is the Creator (Isa 44:24 & Jn 1:3), he forgives sins (Isa 43:25 & Mk 2:5; Lk 5:24) and he is the object of worship (Ex 34:14; Dt 6:13 & Mt 2:1-2,11, 14:33, 28:17).

Christ shares the names of Yahweh. He is the "I AM" (Ex 3:14 & Jn 8:58), "the first and the last" (Isa 44:6 & Rev 1:17), "the lord of lords" (Dt 10:17 & Rev 19:16).

Christ shares the offices of Yahweh. He is the Shepherd (Ps 23 & Jn 10:11; Heb 13:20; 1 Pe 5:4) and the King (Jer 23:5-6; Jn 1:49, 12:13).

designs

Ok this is great, let's keep Tabs-

Jesus is Jehovah and the Angel of the Lord Vote 1

Deputy Dog

MadJW

I ALWAYS answer a question, DD- lay it oN me!

For the 3rd time on this thread alone. Is Jesus a Human/Angel hybred?

In John 6 Jesus says: "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven". What came down?

BurnTheShips

Who really is Michael the Archangel?

Michael the Archangel is Michael the Archangel.

BTS

designs

It was literal Kosher Bread

BurnTheShips

We have been made a little less than the Angels, but we were created in the image and likeness of God.

To use some favorite Calvinist terminology (since DD is on the thread): The Elect will be greater than the Angels.

There will be none greater than the Elect, save God.

BTS

tec

There are many Old Testament teachings where Yahweh is applied to Christ in the New Testament.

Yes, there are. But as a son, (at least in the days of Jesus) didn't that son inherit his father's estates, titles, etc? Why would it be any different for the Son of God?

Tammy

Chalam

Indeed.

John 5:18 (New International Version)

18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

I am looking forward to my inheritance :)

Romans 8:17 (New International Version)

17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Matthew 25:34 (New International Version)

34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

Colossians 1:12-14 (New International Version)

12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you [ a ] to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, [ b ] the forgiveness of sins.

Footnotes:

Colossians 1:12 Some manuscripts us
Colossians 1:14 A few late manuscripts redemption through his blood

I have the downpayment already :) :)

2 Corinthians 5:5 (New International Version)

5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Revelation 21:6-7 (New International Version)

6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

Blessings,

Stephen