WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch 270 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Essan

  Consfearacy,

  Your comments don't harmonize with the Bible. You wrongly applied James, saying:

  "Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment. James 3:1 Meaning they'll be subjected to harsh criticism, but if it gets extreme and unreasonable, criticism is no longer constructive."

  No, the Judgement referred to here is from God, it does not refer to the 'hash criticism' of men. God has been quite clear on His position regarding those who predict the future falsely in His name. He says they are false prophets and the penalty is death and that no one should listen to them because God did not send them. So don't moan about "harsh criticism" and pretend that the judgement is from men or that identifying a false prophet as a false prophet is somehow unjust! The judgement is from God and the criteria for recognizing these ones comes staright from the Bible and is crystal clear:

  "But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him."

  You go on to further misapply Scripture:

  For we all stumble many times. If anyone does not stumble in word, this one is a perfect man. James 3:2

  There is a difference between making a mistake in word and calling yourself "God's mouthpiece" and repeatedly preaching as fact, over decades, the end of the world on various dates! This is a career of false predictions and false teaching. It's not "oops, I stumbled". The Society stumbled others with it's false predictions, and as Jesus said regarding stumbling his followers "it would be better that they had a millstone hung around their neck and were pitched into the sea"

  And how come you insist on such (unscriptural) leniency for the Society, and yet the Society shows not a fraction of such leniency to other religions and their teachers, few of whom have made so many false predictions as they? The Watchtower condemns mercilessly everyone but themselves! Well, "With the measure that you are measuring out, they will measure out to you".

  You said: There's several scriptures in the Bible that shed light on the meaning of a false prophet. Matthew 7:15-20 is one of such.

  Indeed, and the Society is also condemned by that Scripture. But it's not the only verse which condemns them or which discusses the identifying marks of a false prophet. But you and Debator carefully cherry pick which Scriptures regarding false prophets you want to discuss, because you know that when taken all together, they utterly expose and condemn the WTBTS.

  You said: Stumbling in speech isn't an identifying mark in itself

  No, but making false predictions is. See how you cherrypick issues?

  You quote: 'And many false prophets will arise and mislead many'; Matthew 24:11

  But you don't go on to quote what these prophets say which identifies them as false or what they 'mislead' ABOUT! Why not? They 'mislead' about the arrival of Christ! Jesus continues in Matthew 24 to give us a crystal clear identifying mark of the false prophets he was referring to:

  "At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it." For... false prophets will appear... to deceive even the elect...So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man..

  So, the false prophets Jesus was referring to wrongly proclaim the return of Christ and so deceives the 'elect'! This is exactly what the Society did - repeatedly, beginning in the 1870's right through to 1925! Even if you accept the WT's present teaching on 1914, this is catastrophic, but if their present teaching on 1914 is wrong too - which it is - then they are STILL doing it! Read the examples of quotes from them on the previous page! Even by this one verse the WTBTS are utterly condemned!

  "Bible prophecy shows that the Lord was due to appear for the second time in the year 1874. Fulfilled prophecy shows beyond a doubt that he did appear in 1874. Fulfilled prophecy is otherwise designated the physical facts; and these facts are indisputable. All true watchers are familiar with these facts as set forth in the Scriptures and explained in the interpretation by the Lord's special servant...Do you believe it? Do you believe that the King of glory is present, and has been since 1874? - The WT, November 1, 1922, pp.332-337

  Russell/The Society, claiming authority as "The Lord's Special Servant", urges all to accept the "indisputable" facts, which are "beyond a doubt", insisting that the 'elect' believe Jesus returned in 1874! But JESUS, in stark contrast, warns against these false prophets and urges us NOT to believe them! ""At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it." For... FALSE PROPHETS will appear... to deceive even the elect."

  Why you Debator and others would attempt to defend that Scripturally indefensible and the Spiritually reprehensible, is quite beyond me.
• 

  elm

  Hi Designs,

  "If they had a new idea or a new way of looking at a verse or passage it must have come from God" sounds to me that going by their past and also now, their "new light " doctrines, old failed prophecies and new ones.......... it comes from non other than saten himself. Is'nt that what they teach over and over again about other religions.
• 

  Mary

  Consfearesy said: So if someone else were to make a connection with what the Bible teaches, because Charles Russell has destroyed his own credibility, nothing the Bible says really means anything. I guess I can understand why Russel is such a bad man.

  Your statement doesn't even make any sense (what a huge surprise). Charles Russell is just one of many men who cried 'wolf' about the world ending, took some random scriptures, twisted them to mean something to suit his own agenda, and ended up looking like a fool.

  There's several scriptures in the Bible that shed light on the meaning of a false prophet. Matthew 7:15-20 is one of such. Stumbling in speech isn't an identifying mark in itself, a person's motives are also called into question. If someone is operating out a selfish motive, they generally mislead.

  More bullshit. You don't need "several scriptures" to "shed light on the meaning of a false prophet." Deuteronomy 18 clearly outlines what constitutes a false prophet and, much to the chagrin of people like you, a "person's motives" is not one of them. All it takes is for someone claiming to talk for Jehovah, predict that something is going to happen (and be dumb enough to throw in a specific date), and it doesn't happen. According to the scriptures, whoever does this is a false prophet, end of story. And when you measure the Organization with their own yardstick, it becomes even more embarassing for them:

  "...In the all-important matter of worshiping God, it is likewise true that sincerity alone does not guarantee that God is pleased with our worship. We may conscientiously believe we are doing well in this regard, yet we may be deluding ourselves."---- Watchtower January 1, 1964 p. 4

  "Since the Bible was completed and "inspiration" is no longer necessary, a true prophet is one who is faithfully proclaiming what is written in the Bible.......It matters not whether he proclaims his message with deliberate, willful and malicious intent to deceive, or whether he is the blinded and deluded dupe of Satan and hence unwittingly used of him. In either case, he is a false prophet and hence the agent of Satan." ----Watchtower May 15, 1930, p 154

  So please. Spare yourself the embarassment of trying to explain away all of the WTS's false predictions that they've made over the last 130 years. If it were any other religion that had made all of these false predictions, Jehovah's Witnesses would have absolutely no problem whatsoever in pointing their finger at them with glee as they recount all of the failed prophecies that had been made. But because the Society has predicted more dates than any other religion, they get all cagey and defensive as they desperately search the scriptures trying to explain away why nothing they've ever predicted has come to pass.
• 

  Essan

  Excellent references Mary.

  That's what's so funny about the Society, that have managed to utterly condemn themselves by printing explicit definitions of "False Prophets" which fit them perfectly and by saying that motivation and intent doesn't matter in such cases and still makes one "a false prophet and hence an agent of Satan". How right they are.

  Now, Watchtower apologists have to reject the Society's own teachings - thereby rendering themselves apostate in the process - in order to try to get the Society off their own hook. LOL.

  I love the fact that one needs nothing but the Society's own literature and the Bible to utterly expose them.
• 

  Consfearacy

  Mary wrote, "Your statement doesn't even make any sense (what a huge surprise). Charles Russell is just one of many men who cried 'wolf' about the world ending, took some random scriptures, twisted them to mean something to suit his own agenda, and ended up looking like a fool.

  There's several scriptures in the Bible that shed light on the meaning of a false prophet. Matthew 7:15-20 is one of such. Stumbling in speech isn't an identifying mark in itself, a person's motives are also called into question. If someone is operating out a selfish motive, they generally mislead.

  More bullshit. You don't need "several scriptures" to "shed light on the meaning of a false prophet." Deuteronomy 18 clearly outlines what constitutes a false prophet and, much to the chagrin of people like you, a "person's motives" is not one of them. All it takes is for someone claiming to talk for Jehovah, predict that something is going to happen (and be dumb enough to throw in a specific date), and it doesn't happen. According to the scriptures, whoever does this is a false prophet, end of story. And when you measure the Organization with their own yardstick, it becomes even more embarassing for them:

  "...In the all-important matter of worshiping God, it is likewise true that sincerity alone does not guarantee that God is pleased with our worship. We may conscientiously believe we are doing well in this regard, yet we may be deluding ourselves."---- Watchtower January 1, 1964 p. 4

  "Since the Bible was completed and "inspiration" is no longer necessary, a true prophet is one who is faithfully proclaiming what is written in the Bible.......It matters not whether he proclaims his message with deliberate, willful and malicious intent to deceive, or whether he is the blinded and deluded dupe of Satan and hence unwittingly used of him. In either case, he is a false prophet and hence the agent of Satan." ----Watchtower May 15, 1930, p 154

  So please. Spare yourself the embarassment of trying to explain away all of the WTS's false predictions that they've made over the last 130 years. If it were any other religion that had made all of these false predictions, Jehovah's Witnesses would have absolutely no problem whatsoever in pointing their finger at them with glee as they recount all of the failed prophecies that had been made. But because the Society has predicted more dates than any other religion, they get all cagey and defensive as they desperately search the scriptures trying to explain away why nothing they've ever predicted has come to pass."

  The reason I have a problem labeling Charles Taze Russel a false prophet is because while he and the early Bible students did say some things I disagree with, the “Millennial Dawners” as they refered to themselves back then, also said things I do agree with. They made some statements about medical science and the use of vaccines that were quite inaccurate.

  The aspect of the legal organization in use by Jehovah's Witnesses that refers to itself as the “faithful and discreet slave” has sharpened its analysis of fundamental sciences and literary output throughout the years. The Bible documents the mistakes of certain men and the good they accomplished. A noteworthy example is David. Psalms was written by David and others. Of the 150 psalms, the superscriptions attribute 73 to David. They weren't omitted from the Bible because of the adulterous affair with the wife of Uriah and the murder to cover it up. Generalizations like adulterer and murderer can be ascribed to David, but that doesn't mean the songs composed by David in the Book of Psalms weren't inspired of God.

  God doesn't evolve, but human beings do progress in understanding. You can choose to label Charles Taze Russel a false prophet because of a misunderstanding, but what's that have to with anyone who follows his work? If an error is isolated, especially early on, as Jehovah's Organization was progressing, if they do continue to clarify what the Bible teaches and any prior misconceptions, their principle method of teaching will not consist of men's opinions. Provided a person believes the Bible is God's inspired word.

  After the mistaken speculation about 1925 was clarified, Jehovah's Witnesses maintained the position of what is stated in Matthew 24:36.

  “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

  I was born in the 70's, so it's better off for me that an end-time apocalypse didn't occur in 1925. There's push and shove amongst Christendom's Churches about what religion is true and false. From my observation, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is the only religion that makes logical sense and that synchronizes with the Bible in its entirety.
• 

  isaacaustin

  Consfearacy said:

  was born in the 70's, so it's better off for me that an end-time apocalypse didn't occur in 1925. There's push and shove amongst Christendom's Churches about what religion is true and false. From my observation, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is the only religion that makes logical sense and that synchronizes with the Bible in its entirety.

  My reply: You need to go do some research.
• 

  wasblind

  Not only does the WTS try to explain away 130 years of false prophecy,

  but they also change the Bible description of a false prophet ,

  and now have changed the universal understanding of what a generation is.

  I'm looking for them to come out with a dictionary of their own and tell the JW's they can no longer use Websters.
• 

  isaacaustin

  Wasblind, they rewrite their history, they re-define words. Hey, they re-defined generation...no surprise they tried to re-define false prophey as well. LOL
• 

  wasblind

  Thats why we know they ain't the "truth" gotta twist things to make them fit.
• 

  isaacaustin

  Exactly, truth built upon lies is not truth at all.