Adam and Eve and free will

by inbetween 125 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  PSacramento

  How could they have been fully aware if God had intentionally restricted their ability to know?

  Is there any reason to believe that "adam and eve" didn't know death?

  That was the punishment, " for on that day you will surely die", sure it was a metaphore for many things:

  Their death as "chosen ones"

  Their death as "immortals"

  The death of their "innocence"

  And the list can go on, but God did warn Adam and Adam did warn Eve and there is no reason to think they didn't believe God or didn't understand what he meant.
• 

  sabastious

  The fall of Adma and Eve is a story, a lesson, in the dangers of wanting more than we have, of desiring without regard of consequence.

  ^ I don't believe that this is what the story was originally about. As a story in the Bible, yes, but as the story that the Bible's version is based off:

  Adam and Eve (the first couple) had what I refer as to the "First Choice."

  This first choice was given to them by their creator. The choice was this:

  Do you want to live under the rule of God and forsake your ability to know Good and Bad (another way of saying Free Will) or do you want to eat from the Tree of Good and Bad and go off on your own.

  The Witnesses would have us believe that one choice was better than the other but I strongly disagree. It was simply a choice both having pros and cons. Free Will entails suffering but eventual complete freedom. Rule under God meant forsaking Free Will and living as God's pets (I don't mean that in a bad sense).

  Of course Humans ended up choosing Free Will because of what we see today, we ARE free to choose in our lives.

  This ability we have has been bitter sweet. A problem that needs solving in this system is somehow keeping certain people from seeking absolute power, because once someone has obtained this power it negates the Free Will of his subjects and it nutralizes the original First Choice.

  I hope this makes sense.

  -Sab
• 

  notverylikely

  Is there any reason to believe that "adam and eve" didn't know death?

  According to Paul, death didn't come about until after adam sinned. And since i think your next step will be to say "animals would have died", there is no mentioned of any death in the bible, so suggesting otherwise is wishful conjecture.

  That was the punishment, " for on that day you will surely die", sure it was a metaphore for many things:

  God didn't say it was in any way a metaphor. Wishful conjecture :)

  And the list can go on, but God did warn Adam and Adam did warn Eve and there is no reason to think they didn't believe God or didn't understand what he meant.

  Exactly, he was VERY plain that in the very day of their eating they would die. They didn't.
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  sabastious

  Exactly, he was VERY plain that in the very day of their eating they would die. They didn't.

  That is an interesting point because the Witnesses would say that God's day was 1000 years. But we only know that from the Bible. It is safe to assume that they would think that he was talking about a literal 24 hour day.

  -Sab
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  PSacramento

  Exactly, he was VERY plain that in the very day of their eating they would die. They didn't.

  Really? they're still alive ??
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  sabastious

  He said THAT VERY DAY. Odd thing to say when humans don't have a 1000 year day, they have a 24 hour day. Why so cryptic?

  -Sab
• 

  PSacramento

  According to Paul, death didn't come about until after adam sinned. And since i think your next step will be to say "animals would have died", there is no mentioned of any death in the bible, so suggesting otherwise is wishful conjecture.

  God didn't say it was in any way a metaphor. Wishful conjecture :)

  Well, since neither of US wrote Genesis, what exactly did you think we were doing but discussing conjectures ?
• 

  notverylikely

  Really? they're still alive ??

  As alive as your metpahor theory, my friend :)

  Of course they aren't, they lived almost a thousand YEARS after God told them they would DIE that DAY!
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  notverylikely

  Well, since neither of US wrote Genesis, what exactly did you think we were doing but discussing conjectures ?

  I am discussing what it SAYS, you are discussin what you WANT it to say.
• 

  PSacramento

  He said THAT VERY DAY. Odd thing to say when humans don't have a 1000 year day, they have a 24 hour day. Why so cryptic?

  Genesis reads that on the day they EAT of it, they will die, not that they Die ON THAT day.

  It is a subtle difference but, since they did NOT die on that day, it is obvious that God meant soemthing else, as I stated above.

  I am NOT a bible literalist, but even I see that what was said was not that they would die on the very day/moment they ate the fruit.

  Remember the hebrew word youm can mean a variety of time periods, not just a 24hr day or specific day.