Adam and Eve and free will

by inbetween 125 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  sabastious

  Sarcasam aside, IF we take the story as fact and we shouldn't, we see that God gave them everything and the only thing God denied them is the knowledge of Pain, Evil, misery and sorrow and that is what they wanted, so in the end, God gave them what they wanted.

  Isn't this what well meaning parent do to their kids who end up spoiled with no real world savy?

  You can't shield us from pain, pain and sorrow, evil and misery are part of the Path. The Path is what is important not the end of the rainbow. That's just my opinion.

  -Sab
• 

  Terry

  What are the consequences for tresspassing and theft among civilized people?

  THE DEATH PENALTY?

  What is wrong with this picture?

  Compare this Almighty God in Genesis with the Muslim fanatics of today's world?

  Is it a comfortable fit?
• 

  PSacramento

  You can't shield us from pain, pain and sorrow, evil and misery are part of the Path. The Path is what is important not the end of the rainbow. That's just my opinion.

  I totally agree, as humans we tend to identify ourselves with the struggle.

  Sometimes the struggle is all we have.

  But that is because we are broken, incomplete, when away from The Lord.

  See, God doesn't fix our problems, never has really, God gives us the strength to deal with them, God supports us and Gudies us, IF we allow God to.

  Now, I know you don't believe and that's fine, I respect that, but as someone who does, I can only epxress to you MY view and ask that you try to understand it, not condone it or agree, only understand.

  I know my children tend to learn the hard way, just as I did and still do, but as a Father I still try to help them, shelter them and guide them, be there when they fall and give them strength to carry on.

  What else can a loving father do?

  Sure I COULD dominate them completley and shelter them and protect them and dicate to them, but then they would not be them, they would be something else, I know that and even though I warn them about all the bad that I know will happen if they do this instead of that, the choice is stil theirs.

  I am just there to pick up the pieces because they are my everything.
• 

  LongHairGal

  I always found the oversimplified tale of Adam and Eve rather disturbing. And the fact that untold millions have suffered because of them to this very day is unacceptable to me and does not fit the concept of a supposedly loving, just and righteous god. According to the way the religions tell it, this can never be made right as far as I am concerned.

  It begs the questions of whether the original story is even remotely true; what has been left out and most of all, is god essentially loving, just and righteous???
• 

  tec

  Spiritual death. They did die in that day.

  There are two Adam and Eve threads going, btw.

  Tammy
• 

  Sapphy

  The whole story as written and interpreted assumes Satan is an idiot.

  Eve & Adam are tempted first into eating of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, whereas, any creature with super human intellegence, would have got A&E to eat from the tree of life first! Then they live forever and also have knowledge of good and evil. God, in that case would have 'lost' 6000 years ago.
• 

  sabastious

  Spiritual death. They did die in that day.

  ^ Mental gymnastics, case in point.

  -Sab
• 

  sabastious

  The whole story as written and interpreted assumes Satan is an idiot.

  Eve & Adam are tempted first into eating of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, whereas, any creature with super human intellegence, would have got A&E to eat from the tree of life first! Then they live forever and also have knowledge of good and evil. God, in that case would have 'lost' 6000 years ago.

  Which is one reason why the story is obvious allegory, it does't make sense as a linear story. As an allegory it doesn't hold much water either...

  -Sab
• 

  Pistoff

  The story of Adam and Eve is many things; it is of course, one more version of man/woman/tree/snake that is found in all ancient cultures.

  I believe it was kept by the TNK's redactors because it is a fable that explained something, just like everything else in the OT.

  The accountof Adam and Eve tells the story of free will, and it's consequences; it meant that to christians too, at least until the time of Augustine, when he won the argument with (can't remember who) and it then became the story of original sin, a concept still retained by at least the fundamental christians, including the witnesses.

  But it is nuanced, and contradictory, as seen by the comments here. If we can't choose to do what is wrong, we are chained; if we do good only because we are forced to, it is a hollow victory.

  Free will is powerful, and god's will is seen to be fragile and needing to be protected. That is how i believe judaism would look at it.
• 

  tec

  Sab - Adam and Eve first hid from God and were then removed from the Garden of Eden and the tree of life. Being without God means spiritual death - so they did die that day. I don't come to this by mental gymnastics. Jesus was concerned about and spoke of spiritual life and spiritual death - which is how I can come to this understanding - especially since Christ is the perfect reflection of his Father - who does not change. So if it was important to Christ, then that was important to God.

  "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies, and he who lives and believes in me will never die."

  "Let the dead bury their own dead."

  He was speaking of spiritual life and death in these passages.

  Adam and Eve had life in the Garden of Eve - in spirit. That's what they lost. There was no mention of either of them being confused that they were still alive in the flesh or accusations and skepticism that God had lied to them.

  Tammy