For those still in- why do you (really) stay, and what would it take for you to leave the org?

by serenitynow! 58 Replies latest jw friends

  • miseryloveselders
    miseryloveselders

    Good question Serenity, and fair enough as well. I've got several reasons why I say. The most obvious is family and some close friends. Had my family been one of those families with a history of physical or verbal abuse, bad blood, and contention, it would be easy to walk. Fortunately, and unfortunately thats not the case. I love my parents and my siblings. They've all done quite a bit of good for me. It would hurt them tremendously for me to "leave Jehovah." My mother told me quite specifically that if I leave, she's "through with me." She stated, "It will kill your father. Me, I can handle losing you. I'll move on." Its nothing short of emotional extortion by a delusional JW whom I just happen to love dearly. To be fair, when she made those statements we were in the middle of a heated argument regarding "the truth." She got emotional because she realized I cornered her regarding "the Faithful and Discreet Slave." She had no legitimate comeback, and her being a 2nd generation JW Pioneer, it scared her I believe. I now argue more subtly to keep the peace and hopefully plant a seed. We still have a great relationship as I do with the rest of my family. I love them too much to cause that kind of division. I'll admit though somedays I wonder if my and others situation is what Jesus meant by His causing division in the family. Some religion, this Christianity huh?

    I also have friends that I love and respect in the congregation. I know sometimes under duress I've posted on here that I could take em or leave em as if they were no big deal. Truth be told I love many of those in the congregation. Are there flawed people in the congregation and the organization? Of course, but you'll find that everywhere. Just because you leave JWs doesn't mean your grass is snake free and your plumbing will never need maitenance. I had to go to an Elder's meeting earlier this week, and I saw imperfect, flawed men who truly cared about the people in the congregation. Some of these men might be ambitious, and some of their personalities can be quite annoying. However, most if not all are genuinely concerned about the congregation. This Saturday I look forward to treating a shut in older one to lunch. That old fart can eat too. She's lost a touch of her memory, but her appetite is intact. She's thrilled when I make my way to the high rise she stays in, and not for the food. The elderly and shut in at our congregation recieve regular visits, and care. They're truly not forgotten about. I have to give credit to the imperfect men I serve with. My congregation has the typical pet peeves. Ya know, the gossip, cliques, cattiness, etc.. As an adult, I have to look beyond that. That kind of behavior can be found anywhere. To leave JWs because for those reasons I believe shows weakness in an adult. Not that I'm judging anybody's decision if it was for those reasons, cuz I've heard some horror stories. I know many of the horror stories on here are accurate depictions of some congregations. Me personally, if I left for those reasons considering the overall state of my congregation, it would be weakness on my part. It would be the equivalent of the child who takes his marbles and storms home.

    The organization itself is a source of division within my heart. There's some days I can see good in this organization, and even believe its being used by Jesus. I believe its a fine thing for resources to be used teaching people about Jesus' life, his example, and what His death did for us. I also think its appropriate to use the Bible's record as a source to consider when making decisions in life. For the record I'm not one of those dudes that thinks the Bible is the word of God. I believe thats utter nonsense. I believe you can understand God and His laws and principles by examining the scriptures. Hence, when the WTS uses the scriptures in their literature to assist people in decision making, and even trying to make sense of the world we live in, I'm ok with that. Where the WTS loses me is the constant patting themselves on the back and criticizing every other faith out there. The WTS would like to envision itself as the Nike of organized religion. Rutherford's personality was strong enough that his stamp is still evident in the tone and atmosphere of the religion as a whole so long after his death. Part of why I stay is I'm hoping, and praying that personalities more in harmony with Christ will eventually triumph and overshadow Rutherford and his children's(Jaracz) legacy. I also hope and pray that down to earth personalities will eventually see the lunacy of Fred Franz and others teachings and start adopting the obvious meanings in the scriptures. Such as the other sheep, and the 144,000. I sort of get the feeling Fred Franz was one of those nuts at the bus stop that you made the mistake of making eye contact with, and you vowed never to make that mistake again. If his nephew and others were capable of seeing through his lunacy, I'm sure there has to be others.

    One last thing I'm a true crime fan. I love reading about mobsters, gangsters and what not. I read an interview with John Greschner and Dallas Scott who were two AB members in a federal pen locked down like 23-24 hours a day. They discussed how they were able to maintain their sanity. They both agreed that the best way to do your time was to "beat the man." I'll copy and paste the paragraphs as I found it on another site, and I'm tired of typing. Been typing all day at work, and now on here. This is taken from a book called The Hot House.

    "The best way to "do time", Scott and Greschner explained, was by "beating the man". Pour breakfast cereal in the sink in your cell, and water, and let it curdle for several days. It will become potent enough to get you drunk. You've just beat the man. Remove the thin steel wire from inside an eyeglass case and rub it against the bars. It will saw through them. You've just beat the man. Take the plastic wrap covering your food and roll it tight around a toothbrush. Heat it with matches until it becomes hard, and then spend several hours rubbing it against the floor, making its edges sharp. You've just made yourself a plastic knife and beat the man. All of these things have been done at Marion at one time or another, and just when guards were certain they ahd seen it all, convicts like Scott and Greschner would come up with proof that they hadn't.

    Beating the man was lesson number one. Lesson two was to feed off the hate. "Anything they do that doesn't kill you in prison, should make you stronger." Scott explained. "The more they try to break you, the more you want to beat them." Pure, unadulturated hate could sustain a man for years."

    This might sound crazy, but I view my life growing up as a JW as doing my time. I just didn't completely realize I was in prison until my mid twenties. I might do life, and again I know it sounds crazy but it motivates me. I don't contribute not one cent of my earnings to the WT anymore and its one of several ways I thumb my nose at them. I'm serving as an Elder, and I'm on here posting at an apostate website. I go out in service and I do genuinely try to see if I can offer encouragement to those who need it. At the same time however, I have absolutely no intention of trying to make a convert in field service. When the CO visits, I'm not taking him or his wife out to eat. I aint donating squat to any of his bills. The WTS can pay for the gas he burns in his brand new leased car. I'm not pioneering, I'm not encouraging anybody to pioneer. If someone in the hall ever asks me whether I regret anything in life, I'll tell them I regretted not going to college. I'm not disfellowshipping anybody. I'm reporting pedophiles to the proper authorities, after I beat the living snot out of them. There's a couple DFd people I converse with periodically. There's quite a few faders I talk with that don't know about my true beliefs and being on here. I blow off meetings and assemblies when I don't have any parts or anything to do. I leave early when bored. I might hit the gym during mid week meeting nights. Etc, etc.

    I found that it is possible to live dual lives within the WT world. It can be done, and again call me crazy, but it motivates me to keep goin.

  • inbetween
    inbetween

    well put, MLE !!!

    almost exact the same here, my main reasons: family, and the fact, that our congo is ok, elders are caring, and reasonable.

    of course, there are days, I just wish to scream and run......

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    A few reasons come to mind. There are a few that want to stay "active" because they can get littera-trash and post it before it becomes public or record the talks and post them online. Others are staying in because, if they leave, their families will totally leave (and even fading to them constitutes "leaving"). Still others are curious, motivated by habit, or too lazy to actually do their own thinking even though they know the witlesses are wrong.

    More sinister are the ones in it for the power. They know it is a farce. However, they stick it out so they can ruin other people's lives. They can get disfellowshipped several times only to return to the cancer. They are the self-righteous ones with zero tolerance for anything, usually beyond what even the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger writes. They teach the strictest versions to their studies, and hound people to pio-sneer and go to Beth Hell when they are not reasonably capable of doing so. And yes, this class includes the pedophiles that will not leave because that would cut off their sources of children to ruin the lives of.

    I believe most of us on these boards fit the first group--wanting to post talks and littera-trash for others to see or because they are afraid that their family will totally cut them off for missing even a single boasting session or doing less than 10 hours of real field circus a month.

  • Crisis of Conscience
    Crisis of Conscience

    Two words - SOCIAL CLUB.

    I have already established in previous posts that I realize that most, if not all, of my friendships in the org are conditional. If I leave, I get dropped.

    So yes , it's hypocritical and selfish of me. But as long as long as I keep up the act, my socializing, people loving @$$ will continue to have people I can relate to pretty well because I have known so many for so long. And I have definitely had many good times with them that I am not ready to just throw away right now. And I don't want to forget the travel opportunities I get by knowing witnesses in other states or countries.

    I am currently though striving to form some friendships with "wordly", "weak spiritually", and even disfellowshipped people, because I can't see things being this easy forever.

    My wife is also a factor. However, she seems to have loosened up her stance with me. She seems more understanding. But that may have to do with a little conversation we had about some things she has confessed to me. It's not my intention to blackmail, but simply put, what makes it fine for her and yet I get the "Jehovah says" speech? I think now we are on the same page to some extent.

    As far as my side of the family, they are all on the "weaker" side. No problem there. I wouldn't lose them. And my wife's family, though I like them, are really no loss for me. I would definitely lose them.

    The congregation I am in seems pretty genuine. My beef is not with them, despite some of the ridiculous things said by the elders at times. My real beef is with the Watchtower.

    What I really desire is some big scandal in the hall, or the org, whichever comes first. A cop out? - Yes indeed. I don't think it's too unrealistic either. But it would be so easy to walk out that way and might even spur others to do the same, like my wife, whom I know now to also have her doubts. Oh yes, and I can't forget my father too.

    CoC

  • dssynergy
    dssynergy

    Misery put it well...

    I stay because I am not willing to lose the social ties I have. (I'm a 5th generation born-in) Right now, I haven't been to a meeting in many months, and although my mom makes regular comments, I'm not hassled too much. I live a fairly normal life - I own a business. I travel a lot for work. I'm making plans to finish my BA and apply for an MA program.

    I don't have problems holding my own opinions privately. I don't have any reason to share what I think with others. The people who like me at the KH are genuinely good people, and do believe that this is The Truth. I believe that part of respecting others is allowing them to think what they want without feeling the need to burst their bubble should they be wrong. So, I keep quiet. The longer I do this, the less distress there is for me.

    As long as I'm not going to the meetings, I feel fine. One other thread talked about feeling judged at the KH. That is true for me. I'm never going to fit into their expectations of what a single 38 year old woman with no children should look like. I'm not going to pioneer. I'm not pine-ing for a man. I'm not desperate or particularly lonely. I'm stable, independent, successful, and don't have a lot of personal problems. So, for now - I am flying under the radar, keeping my opinions to myself and surviving. It also helps that I am getting ready to leave to work out of town for 3 months.

    I also have a nephew who is 8 years old, and comes from a very unstable home. I'm really working on having a good relationship with him so he has at least one stable person outside of his immediate family who he can turn when he needs it - and he will. If I leave, I would be essentially abandoning him to the insanity that surrounds him. I just can't do it.

    I like who I am most of the time, so I'm not willing to sit for 5 hours a week listening to a tirade of things I'm not doing "right" or "could do better" or "more". The truth is, I don't care. I do believe that the JWs are right about many things. And I do believe they are wrong about just as many things. And, maybe God is using them. But I don't care. I don't care if I die, or if I get to live forever. If the real issue is the determination about Universal Soverignty - my one life is not going to make or break it. I believe God can take care of himself. And if he wants to decide that I'm not a worthy human being, well then I'm just as happy being dead - because it is a lot like sleep, and sleeping is fine by me.

    DS

  • xcellxior
    xcellxior

    We are here on this earth a fraction of time. To those who are in just for the sakes of others you are wasting the potential of your lifes. You are being untrue to yourself and you are lying to those you apparently love.

    Yes its hard to leave, many have only friends in the "truth" but you can get new friends. Better friends. Friends that won't look down on your because you don't share their bullsh*t belief.

    I suppose I am lucky most of my family woke up at the same time but I still have to tread carefully because not all my family are out yet.

    To those of you with spouses, speak to them about your concerns/doubts. You maybe surprised that their true feelings are quite different from what they project. In my case I was a Ministerial servant giving instruction talks but hated the ministry with a passion and really detested the meetings.. (course I never admited this to anyone) Subtle questions and logic can be the first thread that is needed to unwrap the entire thing (the blood thing really made me start to question... then that led onto other things). Once one pillar of WT starts to crack its not long before the whole thing comes tumbling down.

    I wish you all luck and hope that one day you can actually be yoursel and break free of the prison you are in. It's liberating.

    X

  • wobble
    wobble

    I could not stay, I was 58 years in, and during that time I learned to live by my conscience (not the WT's) and to love truth.

    Once I learned the truth about the "troof" I could not have anything more to do with it, without denying who I was and going against my conscience.

    If I did that I would be in an emotional turmoil forever more.

    I simply stopped going, I am not DF'd or DA'd, my family still talk to me, as do Dubs I meet out and about. I have not lost my family.

    So, could this not work for all of you ?

    Try it, if the fade starts to go badly tits up, then you can make an appearance of being "revived" for a while.

    The fade worked for me, well not so much of a fade as a disappearing act.

  • scarredforlife
    scarredforlife

    Wobble, I agree with you. Just try it. Play it by ear. Adjust as you need to. Be who you are and follow your conscience.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    My heart goes out to all of you who cannot make a clean exit.

  • bigmac
    bigmac

    how many of you would just love to wake up tomorrow and say

    I'M NOT A JW ANYMORE !

    you would?

    then WAKE UP

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