Does The Name Really Matter?

by AGuest 189 Replies latest jw friends

OUTLAW

Hey Shelby!..
Thanks for your reply!..
.......................... ...OUTLAW
AGuest

Coggie snickers at OTWO and NVL because evidently the Lord said Shelby is still allowed to talk to me but not to you two, because you NVL are hard-hearted and you OTWO are evidently swine.
I cannot see where I have been directed not to address dear NVL, dear CD (peace to you!). Perhaps you misread/misunderstood something?
You never directly answered my question, on this thread, or the last one. Did ALL the other people you know of who have heard the "voice" of Jaheshua, (or any of the other versions of it, you posted) first hear the name from you, before they heard Jaheshua's voice?
I know it may come as a surprise to you, dear one, but nope. Some didn't learn the name from me at all but from others... or my Lord himself.
Another question: If it is OK to use those other variations that you posted and still have the Lord listen to you, why is not permissable to use the variation Jesus?
Ummmm... first, I did not say it wasn't permissible. NOWHERE did I state it wasn't permissible. I did state that it is INACCURATE and INCORRECT... and so MAY be the reason the "one" they call upon ("Jesus") hasn't been heard by them. Second, it really isn't about the letters or symbols at all... unless you're into such things as some folks are. It is the SOUND... which all of the variations I posted make, similarly. Like most would say the name "Stephen" is pronounced, sounds like, and means the SAME as the name "Steven". True, a few might disagree; however, NONE would say that the name "Stephen" is pronouned, sounds like, and means the same as the name "Stuart." Even though, in some languages, the "ua" may be rendered as the "v" in other languages. See what I mean?
Shelby, You say your words to me are from my Lord.
They were, dear Candlelight (the greatst of love and peace to you!). He directed me to ask whether YOU hear him... and, if so, why you do not openly profess that... and so I did. And, curiously, you did not respond.
However he is unrecognizable in what you said. He does not speak to me in such a manner.
He did not speak to you, dear one. He directed me to ask you. On the note of what IS recognizable, however, I have to say that I find it odd that he would have you openly deny the importance of his name... that he even "taught" on the subject, in light of what I posted that he is recorded to have said... and your trust in what is "written." I did not deviate from what is written... for your sake... and others who put their faith in "the Bible." Yet, you don't even address those statements. You only concern yourself with our Lord's "manner," which was not even at issue here.
My Lord has been known and referred to by men, by the name Jesus, Imanuel, Yahshua, The Christ, messiah and others.
And that was the point, dear one... by MEN. NOT by he himself. If you believe we are to listen to men, then by all means, do as you wish. That is not my understanding, however. Rather, my understanding is that we are to listen... to HIM. And I did... and I shared that. Wouldn't it have been better for you to first go to HIM... and ask HIM... than to debate and dispute with ME? I mean, since you also hear his voice?
I refer to him by a name that others can identify with. In this he finds no error.
You refer to him by a name that others... WHO DO NOT KNOW HIM... can identify with. A name they can "receive." My attention was not necessarily addressed to such ones, however, but to those who claim to already know him, yet perhaps call him by the only name have been GIVEN... by men. Including, perhaps, you...
To those who are searching for him.
Searching for "Jesus," yes. But my attention was not addressed to such one. My attention was addressed to those who are searching for the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, the Son of God and His Christ. Whose name is not "Jesus." But, please... you and them... feel free to continue calling on that name. I have no issue with it nor do I judge you. Not at ALL. If, however, you want the TRUTH... as to the NAME of the Truth... well, then, I have shared that with you. Openly, honestly, and without fear or reservation. Whether you hear... or refrain.
Because I recall his words that it would be on the BASIS of his name... that we would be rejected. I believe that statement is now being fulfilled, at least with regard to MY faith in him... and his name. So, I do not hold anything against you - it is as he said it would be.
Believe in a God of love.
I do!
That he sent us his son to show us this love.
I absolutely do. You seem to forget, though, that that Son is recorded to have said, "I have made your NAME... KNOWN... among the men you have given me." He made that name known to me... and others... as well as his own name. NOT through what we read "in the Bible"... but from his own voice. Just as those who came before us learned it. From him. Not from the scribes.
Pray to know him and he will allow himself to be found.
I already know him, dear one... and am known BY him... by means of being in union with and anointed by him. And I have not found him; HE found me. Because it was I who was lost, NOT him. You, on the other hand, continue "searching the scriptures," for him... and for his name. Truth is, however, you won't find neither there.
Our Lord is not lost, dear Candlelight... or silent... so that he needs men to depict what his name is. All you needed to do was ask; unfortunately, like so many others, you believe you already know... indeed "see". So, you see... "Jesus."
Unfortunatly our 'eyes' can cause us to be blind.
Indeed... and I fear that that is case here. Because you SEE the name "Jesus," you think you "see." More often than not, however, it is the LACK of ears... so that we do not HEAR the HOLY SPIRIT... which renders us "deaf"... that causes us to BE "blind." Because we walk by sight (including what we read)... rather than faith.
May YOU have ears to hear... and get the sense of this truth, dear one.
Again, I bid you peace!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
CandleLight

Shelby,
You are speaking with much presumptousness.
I will not make the display you are trying to goad me into making. I will not justify myself, for that is of no account. The truth is known to my Lord.
I pray on your behalf, and send you my love.
CL
AGuest

I would ask why the apostles were inspired in to be able to speak all different languages modern and ancient (tongues) without it diluting the message
So that all who wished could hear the goods new of the Christ in their own tongue. In English, my Lord's name is not "Jesus." It is "Joshua."
[NOTE: If "Ieosus" is the Greek rendering for the Hebrew "Yeshua"... and translate into the English "Joshua" (although I disagree that it does, but for the sake of this discussion, let's assume)....and "Joshua" is ALSO the English name for "Yeshua"... meaning, if BOTH "Ieosus" AND "Yeshua" (and I only use that spelling to keep the discussion from going too deep)... translate to "Joshua" in English... where did "Jesus" come from? You folks... and particularly you "deep" thinkers... aren't really thinking very deep on this...]
but you need to go back to Ancient hebrew in usage? that is a backward step biblically!
I didn't go back. That was the name HE used. Okay, seriously, let's consider it: Saul of Tarsus, a Jew, is walking down a road when a bright light appears and he hears a voice asking why he is persecuting the speaker. He asks the voice, "Who are you, Lord?" Do you really think... REALLY... that the response was, "I am 'Jesus'?" Really?? It COULDN'T have been... because the voice didn't speak ENGLISH. There WAS no English. So, okay, the voice said, "I am Ieosus?" Seriously. Christ didn't speak Greek (not to say that he couldn't - he didn't); he spoke a form of Hebrew/Aramaic.
The voice said, "I am Jaheshua." Which, when translated to ENGLISH, is "I am Joshua."
"Jesus"... ISN'T the English rendering of my Lord's name. If we want to be truly ACCURATE as to the ENGLISH rendering... "JOSHUA" is the corrent English name. "Jesus", however... is something else entirely.
BUT... no one has to take my word for it. ALL are perfectly free to continue calling on the name of "Jesus". By all means, please do so. It does not matter to me, one way or the other. BUT... please... do NOT blame the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA... when you don't hear an reply. HE is speaking. I am not so sure that "Jesus" is.
I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SA
notverylikely

translate to "Joshua" in English... where did "Jesus" come from? You folks... and particularly you "deep" thinkers... aren't really thinking very deep on this...]
It's a transliteration. Not a translation, an easy mistake to make. It's the same mistake that got us Jah, Jehovah, etc. Any name that uses the J in an ancient Hebrew name is wrong.
The voice said, "I am Jaheshua." Which, when translated to ENGLISH, is "I am Joshua."
Of course it didn't. There is no J transliteration in ancient Hebrew/Aramaic.
It does not matter to me, one way or the other. BUT... please... do NOT blame the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA... when you don't hear an reply. HE is speaking. I am not so sure that "Jesus" is.
That's right. Unless you get the name right you get no answer. When my older son walks in the door and says "Hey-o Daddy-o!" as a term of affection he came up with for me, I ignore him completely until he shows me the respect I deserve by calling me by my full and proper name.
AGuest

Shelby, You are speaking with much presumptousness.
Boldness, yes, dear CL (again, peace to you!), but presumptuousness, no. And I am truly sad that you think that simply because what I shared does not comport with what you are only able to receive at this time. I do not hold it against you, however, because you will hear his name at some point. You are not the first who claim to be a member of Christ's Body (yet, will not openly profess that you hear him - which is curious)... who later came to realize that, like SO many others... their hearing, too, was "dull." Not entirely absent, but certainly not entirely clear.
I will not make the display you are trying to goad me into making.
I fear it is you who are being presumptuous. I posted what I heard... and stated, openly and honestly who I heard it from... and I related his question to you, just as he directed me to. It isn't me who you have not answered, dear CL... so I take no offense. But, truly, I am not trying to goad you into anything. If he told you to call him by the name "Jesus," what stops you from openly professing that here? There should be nothing. I truly do not understand, given our conversations, what it is you are in fear of.
I will not justify myself, for that is of no account.
Yet, you kind of call on me to do so... to justify what I have stated here. In fact, you don't even give me the benefit of the doubt but just assume that I am wrong. Based on what you've read. Which is not necessarily an error... but how do you know that what you READ... is accurate? Certainly you know that all you need do is ask. Yet, you haven't done that. Why? I mean, you also hear his voice. Right? Yet, when I give you his words to READ... you totally overlook them. How is that you can state to me that you put your faith in a name that MEN have given you to use... while rejecting his words (as you believe them to be!) on the IMPORTANCE of that name?
The truth is known to my Lord.
About you, yes. Yet, the truth about HIM... apparently is not known to you. Why is that?
I pray on your behalf, and send you my love.
Funny thing, "love." Love does not get provoked, dear CL. It believes all things and hopes all things. I told you from whom I received this information. Again, rather than go to him and ask... which would have taken nothing from you... you immediately assume me wrong because YOU cannot "receive" the name I shared. Which he said would occur. How then, if YOU allow yourself to be among those who do such rejecting... is that on me?? You accept and put your faith in a name derived by man. Okay. But how do you judge ME for NOT doing so... particularly in light of the fact that it is the Holy Spirit... and NOT man... who leads us into ALL truth... which truth, since it is ALL truth... must... just by reason of it BEING... ALL truth... include the name of our Lord?
I told you once before that it is not the ridiculers who cause me the most grief - it is those who profess to be of the Body... who continually follow after men and adhere to the teachings of men, who REFUSE to open their ears and follow the LAMB... wherever HE goes... even if it's too a place... or understanding that we have never seen or heard before... who do... due to their daily efforts to cause me to stumble... who wish me to listen to THEM... rather than to our Lord. It is standing up to such ones that give me the greatest "tribulation."
Now, again, another "one"... you... want to impose upon me that I am to stop speaking what HE tells me... and accept what men teach, because YOU do. Such ones NEVER come in HIS name, but always in their own. Such ones NEVER say, "the word of our Lord to you is..." but rather always try to force upon their OWN opinions, beliefs, and fears. And they rarely greet with a wish for peace... but offer to "pray" for me because I don't agree with them. Why IS that? My Lord virtually ALWAYS greeted his sheep with a wish for peace... and NEVER told any of them "I will pray for you." He did tell THEM to pray... for their enemies.
[The words of my Lord to me right now are, "Why do they call me 'Lord, Lord'... but do not do the things... I... say? Because they do not know me, child. These people honor me with their lips, but as I said to you... their hearts are far removed from ME. For they truly do not know me because they do not receive me. I have told you... the world cannot receive me."]
Now, what I am supposed to do with THAT???
Sigh! Please, dear CL... go ahead and lean on your own understanding. You are a free agent and perfectly entitled. I am just a servant, even yours. But please do not ask ME to do the same becaue I can't. I have to lean on HIS words. To me. Whether you hear... or refrain. If that "hurts" your ears, then, please... listent to HIM... and STOP following ME... around the board. Please. You should NOT be doing so, anyway.
Again, I wish you the greatest of love... and peace. Truly. You and your entire household. But I will listen to... and follow... the Lamb. WHEREVER... HE goes.
YOUR servant and a slave of the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies,
SA
OUTLAW

Shelby..
I`m curious..

Why wouldn`t JAHESHUA know some people are calling him Jesus?..And..Why would`nt he Reply if he Could?..
I have family members who do not call me by my correct name..
I had a nick name growing up..They know my real name but use my nick name..
Because..Thats how they know me..
I don`t refuse them,because they don`t use my real name..

Most people don`t know the Real name of Jesus..Jesus is "All" they Have..
Why Ignore people who are Reaching Out to You?..
Knowing they are doing the Best they can,with the Limited Knowledge they have..
.......................... ...OUTLAW
AGuest

A name is not simply a grouping of sounds it is a person's nature, character, and authority.
Absolutely agreed, dear DH (peace to you!)
When Christ was on earth many individuals shared his very common name yet his Name alone was elevated above all others.
Again, agreed.
As an english speaking American from the Midwest I have known him as Jesus and he calls me by name.
So, you hear his voice?
I have personally witnessed unclean spirits submit to the authority of the Name of Jesus.
I have not. I have seen such spirits submit, when subjected to the authority of "Christ." When the one with holy spirit says, "In the name of Christ." They don't even need to say the name - they only need to refer to him. However, if one DOES call upon a name, it should certainly be the right one.
His Name is powerful, again not the specific arrangement of sounds...as if this was some magic word but as an appeal to authority of the one behind name who has been given authority over all in heaven and earth.
Yet, the arrangement of sounds YOU refer to are "Jesus."
Knowing the correct pronunciation of the name is not some secret password to get through the door to the path of life.
Yet, a gazillion folks call on the name "Jesus." Which contradicts what Christ himself is recorded to have said about "many are the ones finding IT."
What is important is knowing the person, his nature, character, and authority.
Look, if you don't want to THINK, so be it. Don't. Take the broad way and enter through the wide gate... which MANY have found and [think they] "enter" through. Because they're too busy trying to be "just like" everyone else... going with the "many." As for me, I will stick to the Narray Way... and enter, literally, through Narrow Door... that FEW will find. Because I hear HIM... calling, "THIS is the Way, you people! Walk in through ME!"
May you, too, have ears to hear... if you wish them.
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
notverylikely

I do not hold it against you, however, because you will hear his name at some point. You are not the first who claim to be a member of Christ's Body (yet, will not openly profess that you hear him - which is curious)... who later came to realize that, like SO many others... their hearing, too, was "dull." Not entirely absent, but certainly not entirely clear.
CL, Shelby is right, you are wrong. End of story.
I fear it is you who are being presumptuous.
That's right CL. Shelby is right and you are wrong. Whatever you say is put back upon you. She is rubber and you are glue...
Yet, you kind of call on me to do so... to justify what I have stated here. In fact, you don't even give me the benefit of the doubt but just assume that I am wrong. Based on what you've read.
That's right CL. Shelby can read what you wrote and say you are wrong, but when she reads what you write and call you wrong, you are being presumptuous.
About you, yes. Yet, the truth about HIM... apparently is not known to you. Why is that?
That's right CL. You don't get the same message so it must be you that are wrong. I mean, heavens, Shelby's Lord continually tells her things about me, medicine and science that have been wrong every single fucking time, but do not make the mistake of thinking that means anything. The point is, YOU are wrong, she is right, no matter how wrong what she hears is.
YOUR servant and a slave of the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies,
Remember, CL, she has the name right, even though the J is a mistransliteration. No matter, in her wrongness, she is correct.
AGuest

Of course it didn't. There is no J transliteration in ancient Hebrew/Aramaic.
You are in error, dear NVL (peace to you!). There is no "y"... at least, not as a consonant. There is the "yodh"... which relates to our "J".
When my older son walks in the door and says "Hey-o Daddy-o!" as a term of affection he came up with for me, I ignore him completely until he shows me the respect I deserve by calling me by my full and proper name.
Interesting. When either of my children says, "Hey, Mommy!" my heart lights up. Just like it does when they say, "Hey, Shelby!" (which they do from time to time). It never lights up, though, when they say, "Hey, Sharon!"... 'cause I don't recognize that they're talking to me (indeed, THAT would be presumptuous, wouldn't it?).
On the same note, I am sure my heavenly Father's heart lights up when I say, "Hey, Father!" (which I wouldn't really say, but would say "Abba!" because it's just a bit more respectful)... OR when I say, "Abba, JAH!" (which means the same thing, "Father, JAH!"). It won't light up, however, if I said, "Hey, Jim!"... or even "Abba, Jim"!
I think you get the point. Or perhaps you don't. (Shelby shrugs)
Peace to you!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA

Does The Name Really Matter?

Share this