*Grace* According to JW's. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

by Lily Pie 272 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Deputy Dog

  PSac

  The reason I deleted that part from my post is because it didn't convey what I wanted to say.

  Your first responce did answer the question though, something the edit does not do. Also, your second response ignors large parts of scripture. Let me remind you again you are the one that brought up forced grace, not me. I don't believe I was ever forced to recieve grace, nor do any of those who share my belief, that I'm aware of.

  On a side note, I am wondering if anyone has noticed the "humanist cap" I have been trying on in a few threads.

  I haven't noticed any difference lately. Then again I never thought Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus had anything on you.
• 

  PSacramento

  PSacramento: If you dont mind me asking, what type of catholic are you?

  Catholic in the sense of the original meaning (universal) but probably closest to an "old catholic".
• 

  PSacramento

  Your first responce did answer the question though, something the edit does not do. Also, your second response ignors large parts of scripture. Let me remind you again you are the one that brought up forced grace, not me. I don't believe I was ever forced to recieve grace, nor do any of those who share my belief, that I'm aware of.

  Yeah, I don't think I was expressing myself in the right way, "forced grace" sounds pretty dumb and I apologise for that.

  I was trying to express that I believe that, even though grace is the gift of God for all of us, we are still free to reject it and God and I think that when I was trying to word it, I kind of looked at it in a backwards way and express that we have to receive it as opposed to already being under it but being able to reject God as some do.

  Not sure if that makes it more clearer...
• 

  Deputy Dog

  Psac

  Not sure if that makes it more clearer...

  Well you could start by answering the question. Or should I take your first responce?

  Grace is something that God gives Us all, ...BUT we must receive it( I really don't know what other word to use) like any other gift and we are free to reject it,

  How do babies "receive it"?

  Are babies free to reject it?

  What happens to those with mental problems, are they "free" as well?
• 

  tec

  Just a thought, but I think in order to receive grace we have to believe in the Son who died for us. Lets not forget mercy though. God shows mercy to whom he wishes, and none of us can say what standards he has to use for that - only that his standards will be far more merciful and just than our own.

  Tammy
• 

  PSacramento

  Sorry, I thought my last post was clear.

  Babies are under Grace and not they are nore forced to anything, unless of course you do believe they are predestined to either accept God or not and as such, yes it would seem they are "forced" to accept God or reject God accoring to God's preordained plan.
• 

  Deputy Dog

  Tammy

  I think we're on the same track and not to far apart.

  Psac

  Babies are under Grace and not they are nore forced to anything, unless of course you do believe they are predestined to either accept God or not and as such, yes it would seem they are "forced" to accept God or reject God accoring to God's preordained plan.

  First off, I think you're avoiding the question.

  What I'm having problems with is, You seem to claim SOME men have freedom to accept or reject grace, and others (babies and people with mental issues) don't. It seems the "humanist" has great pride in his ability to choose grace. Yet he isn't quite as confident about those whom we all agree can't choose for themselves.

  What is it that makes you better than the baby or the mentally ill person?

  You're right, in that, this isn't an issue with someone who believes in Sovereign grace.

  I believe when it comes to "FREE" will, we are all in the the same boat.

  We believe that because of the fall all men are tainted and unable (without faith, which is a gift) to choose the good.
• 

  PSacramento

  Ok, let me try it like this ( and thanks for the patience DD), we are ALL under God's Grace, his sone after all died for is ALL and come for us ALL.

  But we are still free to reject grace/God.

  The fall of man was because Man choose to "be like God", Pride did indeed come before the fall and it is that same Pride ( We don't need God/need his grace) that keeps us broken and from God.
• 

  Terry

  Terry,

  It's ok if you don't agree with me, you don't have too, LOL !

  I stated my humble opinion on the matter and you disagreed and yet, we are both still here and the world hasn't ended :)

  You voice your opinion and I disagree and what happens? the same thing we are both still here and the world hasn't ended :)

  I must say this though, for someone that doesn't believe in God, you seem to be very angry at God.

  Of course if I am seeing something that is not there I apologise and you are free to disagree with me and I bet that we will both stil be here and the world will not have ended.

  To base one's life, belief, world view and destiny upon something so admittedly steeped in nothing more or less than OPINION should shake the very foundations of one's intellect. But, I guess we are built differently, that's all. You see, when I was a good little JW--I actually absorbed my belief into an internal GPS for navigating through life. My life constantly consisted of shit choices and consequences which I took to mean I was---gulp!--on the right track! Ha ha ha. Grace is a skewed compass. That's my point. Your mileage may vary.

  As you mention I "seem to be very angry with God." But, that is impossible. I bristle at the dime-a-dozen representation of "God" peddled by every Tom-Dick-and-Harry from the world's beginning. Humanity treats these opinions like a buffet luncheon and ends up with a tasteful array of insipid and non-nutritive delicacies as a steady diet.

  We end up starving for a worthwhile thought knee-deep in our own offal.
• 

  PSacramento

  You are right Terry, Our milages do vary, quite a bit it seems.

  But I still value your thoughts and opinions greatly, even if I may not agree with all of them :)