*Grace* According to JW's. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

by Lily Pie 272 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  PSacramento

  Kindness is to be given to ALL, we are to show kindness to ALL, it i deserved by ALL.

  You will not find Grace defined as underserved kindness in ANY lexicon or encyclopedia.

  Grace is Charis in Greek:

  1) grace

  a) that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech

  2) good will, loving-kindness, favour

  a) of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues

  3) what is due to grace

  a) the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace

  b) the token or proof of grace, benefit

  1) a gift of grace

  2) benefit, bounty

  4) thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward

  Never will you find kindness being conditional or undeserving in the NT.
• 

  PSacramento

  If we look at Romans CHapter 2:3-5

  3 Do you imagine, whoever you are, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not realize that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?

  Notice the use of the word Kindness here, if Paul tought that Grace meant ANY kind of kindness he would have use the word Charis but he uses Chrestotes which means :

  1) moral goodness, integrity

  2) benignity, kindness
• 

  Deputy Dog

  Psac

  The problem with grace as being defined as "undeserved kindness" is that ALL DESERVE kindness, that is a central tenentof Christianity.

  You sound like a Mormon. What bible are you reading? No one DESERVES anything from God but his wrath.

  Never will you find kindness being conditional or undeserving in the NT

  Oh? Romans 11:22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

  We as Christians are to show kindness to all, but, God doesn't OWE it to anyone.
• 

  tec

  We as Christians are to show kindness to all, but, God doesn't OWE it to anyone.

  Agreed - and we are to show kindness to all, because we have been shown kindness, and mercy, and grace, and forgiveness. Freely we have been given, and so freely we should also give.

  Terry, may I ask why you choose to focus on God as being a God of justice? He is a God of mercy. If he wasn't, well, we probably wouldn't still be here. Also, I disagree that the basis for love is value. I know others share it, but it seems cold and legalistic and tit for tat to me, which just seems like a business exchange and not unselfish - love to me should be about giving, not about gaining.

  Tammy
• 

  PSacramento

  You sound like a Mormon. What bible are you reading? No one DESERVES anything from God but his wrath.

  Even those PREORDAINED for good works? ;)

  So, let me see if I get this straight, God is love, his is light and in him their is no darkness, but he has wraith ( which is dark) and God gives us this amazing gift of grace, something that we do NOTHING to deserve, BUT we must deserve kindness ?

  No wonder atheists think the bible is full of contridictions !
• 

  designs

  Wrath, Love, kindness, a divine pat on the head.

  Are we waiting for Godot............
• 

  Deputy Dog

  PSac

  Even those PREORDAINED for good works? ;)

  Yes, even those predestined to recieve God's Grace, deserve nothing from God, but his holy wrath.

  So, let me see if I get this straight, God is love, his is light and in him their is no darkness...

  It looks like you need to get quite a few things straight. You are the one that made an untrue statement about the bible. I simply posted a verse that proves your statement untrue.

  but he has wraith ( which is dark)

  Who says God's wrath is "dark"? My bible says in Romans 2 that God's Wrath is RIGHTEOUS Judgement. That's not dark.

  Romans 2:5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.

  Then you finish up with this:

  ...and God gives us this amazing gift of grace, something that we do NOTHING to deserve, BUT we must deserve kindness?

  I don't know how you got that out of the verse I quoted. I know I never said or implied anything of the sort. Your problem seems to be, you don't know what it means to continue in his (God's) kindness. This has to make us wonder if you understand the grace of God at all.

  Continuing in God's kindness, is a gift, it's called faith. The condition is, you must have and/or continue in the gift of faith.

  Eph 2:7

  so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
• 

  PSacramento

  DD,

  No, I don't think that we view Grace the same way, but that's OK by me, I don't view grace the way the JW's view it either.
• 

  Deputy Dog

  PSac

  No, I don't think that we view Grace the same way, but that's OK by me, I don't view grace the way the JW's view it either.

  Probably not, and if you are a univeralist definitely not.
• 

  PSacramento

  Yep, I am a catholic in the truest sense of the word and believe that ALL are God's children and that ALL can be saved.