JWs REFUSE to Reason!

by brotherdan 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  cyberjesus

  Jw wont reason because they cant, they are JWs. I know your desire to help her and use logic but you gotta listen here. They cant reason. I made the same mistake with my parents. Now they dont talk to me at all. There is LOGICAL argument that will help her and now she is against you. If you wanna rescue her you need.

  1.- BUILD RAPPORT (even if its needed for you to go back to the meetings, or whatever it takes, she needs to trust you)

  2.- Cognitive dissonance (hence the references to mirror her behavior although thats a little hard to do well, usually this dissonance will come from other sources but not you.

  watch this video and see how they did it.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCb9bLkNu2g&playnext=1&videos=dSE_Hn_JPpE&feature=mfu_in_order
• 

  Markfromcali

  Just because you may not say anything it doesn't mean you don't do anything, you can watch and observe her behavior. And not just what she says to you or other people, some of the things you observe indirectly may be very telling.

  Also I don't know if you have any psychology background but it probably makes sense to get some kind of general bearing that way instead of just viewing it in terms of mind control. You'll have a broader context to work with and some of those things you observe will becomes useful then.
• 

  out4good3

  She can't fault the logic of what you're proposing so she's falling back on the usual WT "thought stopping" mechanisms; internalizing every uncomfotably conclusive issue as an attack upon their person thereby avoiding the REAL issue.

  Rather than respond to any logic that risks alienating her from mother hen WT, she's choosing to get sarcastic, not respond at all, and lobbing an accusation at you. She's on the defensive, a place JWs aren't very comfortable when it comes to their faith. They have to feel like they are constantly in control and leading any exercise. And her only way out is to throw our a veiled accusation and have you answer that instead of her being force to conclude verbalizing anything that conflicts with her cult mode training.

  My wife was exactly the same way.

  Like I said before.....Love and Respect.....pour on the kindness and empathy for the way she feels, listen to her witness stories as long as they don't conclude with them being used as a club to beat you over the head with.

  This is what I did with my wife. Whenever she "went there" I calmly told her that if this is where she's going, we're not having this conversation, get up and walk out the room. If she wanted me to have respect for her going to the meetings, then she would have to give me the same respect for not going.

  I suspect that if you stay together, this is what she's going to be trying to do until she's convinced that you are firm in your commitment and are not budging.
• 

  Chalam

  brotherdan So last night my wife brought the situation up again and kept telling me how sorry I'm going to be for what I'm doing to our family. I kept a mild attitude and tried to reason with her.

  She REFUSED!

  Forget reasoning dude :)

  1 Corinthians 2:14 (English Standard Version)

  14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

  Romans 8:7 (English Standard Version)

  7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.

  You need to pray for the Helper to come and help out!

  John 14:26 (English Standard Version)

  26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

  John 16:7-12 (English Standard Version)

  7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

  12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

  Blessings in Christ,

  Stephen
• 

  Ding

  BD,

  Has she moved in with her parents or is she still living under the same roof as you?

  Are you communicating solely by email now?
• 

  OUTLAW

  BD..

  As long as you say anything Negative about the WBT$,to a JW..

  Your Screwed..Period..Case closed..

  If you really wanna make this work..

  Shaduppa You Mouth!!..

  .............................. ...OUTLAW
• 

  ziddina

  What Mad Sweeney said...

  "Another thing I noticed from RtB was that a LOT of what it takes to get someone out of the Borg simply can not be done by an ex-member. By being an ex-member, certain mental barriers are ALREADY UP and the ex-Dub can't tear them down. Trust-building is crucial and the cult member will not ever trust an ex-member. ..."

  And what Ding said...

  "I personally agree with Mad Sweeney because I think you have too much personal integrity to use Watchtower manipulation techniques.

  On the other hand, maybe WT manipulatiion techniques is all she'll respond to. ..."

  Sure makes me wish you could still "play the game"...

  Even tho that's dishonest, to yourself and what you've come to realize...

  I sure get the feeling that your wife is on some sort of "Power Trip" here. With you wavering about "The Truth ™ ", suddenly SHE gets the opportunity to be "head honcho", with a LOT of ego-stroking "support" from her "friends" in the JWs...

  Never mind that they'll dump her, as soon as she becomes a liability...

  Is she employed?? Can she support herself and the children?? Will THEY [her JW buddies...] help her pay for all the expenses that will come her way, if she divorces you and - by some miracle - gets custody of the kids??? Are her parents in "The Truth ™ ", too, and do they live within easy travelling distance??

  Clearly, as Scully brought out on the other thread, your wife hasn't thought things through. What does she have to look forward to, as a JW woman with two small children - a liability [sorry...] for ANY single woman, let alone one in the female-loaded Watchtower Society - and THEN to be unable to date until you've committed PROVEABLE adultery???

  She ain't thinking things thru.... Maybe she needs to fall flat on her face, slam headfirst into reality, before she'll come to her senses...

  Zid
• 

  out4good3

  The womans definitely not thinking things through......

  She is in full retaliatory mode....
• 

  zoiks

  Sorry, Dan. I concure with Mad. You've got to stop...but you already know that. Strength to you.
• 

  ziddina

  Oh, and that reference to the Mormons...

  I wish I'd stated my concerns about that method of approaching your wife, before you tried that out on your wife... To a JW, ANY comparison of the Watchtower Society to ANY OTHER religion - especially one with "cult" overtones - is going to raise their ire...

  Compare it to this: what if you'd asked her to put herself into the shoes of a Scientologist woman?? Or a Roman Catholic woman??? Same basic response, man... No wonder she buzzed like a rat'ler...

  Maybe you could PM Flipper and more specifically, Undercover - I'd strongly recommend PMing Undercover, 'cause he's still "attending" [I think?] while attempting to get parts of his family out. Flipper is a good one to talk to about how to handle dealing with a JW fanatic while being viewed as an "apostate", so yeah, PM Flipper too... He's pretty generous about giving you his ph# too, so you can talk directly to him...

  [EDITED] Oh, yeah, and I think Undercover - and many more on-board here, for that matter - could give you tips and pointers on how to stay sane while attending the meetings, if you HAVE to capitulate and return to the meetings to get her back...

  Zid