by AGuest 198 Replies latest jw friends
There is a point where a discussion (and this is a discussion board) goes beyond being a discussion and into name-calling and put-downs. Ganging up on someone takes it out of the realm of discussion.
Some posters here expect Christians to prove what they say. Well they can't. Their beliefs are based on faith not provable facts. So going "toe-to-toe" with any of them is not going to get you anywhere. So what is the point? Agree to disagree and either continue discussion or move on.
Ganging up on someone takes it out of the realm of discussion.
Hear, hear!
Syl
Yikes. May you all have peace. Ummmm... contrary to popular belief... and false statements... I am not wishing attention for myself. I truly wish ALL attention to go to my Lord, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. I truly wish that the gaze of all... would be on him. That all would listen to and follow him. We know that is not the case... and, for a time yet will not be the case. But that really is my message. On less than five occasions in close to 15 years now I have had the unfortunately experience of witnessing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It does happen, dear ones... and while we are close to 2,000 years past the time when my Lord walked the earth in the flesh... there really isn't anything new under the sun... at least with regard to those who oppose the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, including some from among Israel herself.
Unfortunately, I am not the kind that shrinks back. I understand that today's "form" of "christianity" is one of... well, fear. Fear of saying the wrong thing lest one be found to be... or accused of... judging. Fear of blaspheming oneself. But one of the powers of the anointing really is "boldness" of speech. Paul mentioned that, which I am going to take from the NWT, because that version does actually state it more accurately than some others. Note, it is not "scripture" (Paul was not in spirit when he wrote it), but it's words appropriate describe the situation:
"Are we starting again to recommend ourselves? Or do we, perhaps, like some men, need letters of recommendation to YOU or from YOU? YOU yourselves are our letter, inscribed on our hearts and known and being read by all mankind. For YOU are shown to be a letter of Christ written by us as ministers, inscribed not with ink but with spirit of a living God, not on stone tablets, but on fleshly tablets, on hearts.
"Now through the Christ we have this sort of confidence toward God.Not that we of ourselves are adequately qualified to reckon anything as issuingfrom ourselves, but our being adequately qualified issues from God, who has indeed adequately qualified us to be ministers of a newcovenant, not of awritten code, but ofspirit; for the written code condemns to death, but the spirit makes alive.
"Moreover, if the code which administers death and which was engraved in letters in stones came about in a glory, so that the sons of Israel could not gaze intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, [a glory] that was to be done away with, why should not the administering of the spirit be much more with glory? For if the code administering condemnation was glorious, much more does the administering of righteousness abound with glory. In fact, even that which has once been made glorious has been stripped of glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels it. For if that which was to be done away with was brought in with glory, much more would that which remains be with glory.
"Therefore, as we have such a hope, we are using great freeness of speech, andnot doing as when Moses would put a veil upon his face, that the sons of Israel might not gaze intently at the end of that which was to be done away with. But their mental powers were dulled. For to this present day the same veil remains unlifted at the reading of the old covenant, because it is done away with by means of Christ. In fact,down till todaywhenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their hearts.
"But when there is a turning to JaheShua["the Lord"] the veil is taken away. Now JaheShua ["the Lord"]is the Spirit; andwhere the spirit of JaheShua ["the Lord"] is,there is freedom.
"And all of us, while we with unveiled facesreflect like mirrors the glory of JaheShua, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, exactly as done by JAHESHUA, the Spirit."
The problem is that most either (1) don't know the Spirit, or (2) deny the Spirit. Even some who profess to be "in union" with that Spirit. When we were among the WTBTS, we were TOLD there was a Holy Spirit. We were TOLD there were those who were in union with Christ. We were NOT told, however, that Christ IS that Spirit... or what it truly means to BE "in union." No one there could explain it. But now that we're out... whether we were called out, walked out, or were kicked out... we still resist. We still want to stick with what we [think we] know... based on what MAN has told/taught us... rather than what that Spirit HIMSELF teaches us. Many don't even believe he DOES teach us... directly... even though the very Book in which they put faith SAYS that he does. They continue to lean... upon their OWN understanding.
I cannot do that. I cannot lean on my own understand... or man's... as to many things, but most particularly things having to do with the spirit... OUR spirits... with the Most Holy One of Israel, God... who is known to me as JAH, of Armies... or with the Holy Spirit, the Holy One of Israel, JaheShua MischaJah... for both man's understanding... and mine... are severely flawed and lacking. Which is why God SENT... His Son. So that we may HAVE understanding.
I realize that for some, the appearance of "battle" is too much to handle. The delicacy of their own hearts and minds can't carry such controversies. But what such ones are forgetting is that we do not have a wrestling with flesh and blood! Our wrestling... is with WICKED SPIRITS FORCES... who USE beings of flesh... to wage war against us. I know, I know... we live in a "time" where such thinking is superstitious and "hocus pocus." Dear ones, I am the most UNsuperstitious person you probably know. While I do know what spirit beings exist, I am not afraid of them... and I don't jump and cower at every unexplained event or phenomena. While I don't always agree that there is a PHYSICAL explanation for the event... or a SPIRIT one!... I absolutely do agree that there is always an explanation. And none of it is to be feared... physical OR spiritual.
I do not believe in ghosts, although I do know that the spirits of the dead are not necessarily destroyed. Even still, they are asleep... and harmless. While I do not believe that every incident of mental illness is the result of a "demon" (in fact, I don't believe ANY incident of mental illness is the result of a demon, but such things as genetics, physicalities, injuries, accidents, drugs/alcohol, and abuse), I absolutely DO believe that a bad spirit being can occupy a person and use that person. Do they always act violently? Of course, not. Indeed, even THEY believe... and some even praise God and His Christ!
" And it happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a certain servant girl with a spirit, a demon of divination, met us. She used to furnish her masters with much gain by practicing the art of prediction. This [girl] kept following Paul and us and crying out with the words: “These men are slaves of the Most High God, who are publishing to YOU the way of salvation.” T his she kept doing for many days. Finally Paul got tired of it and turned and said to the spirit: “I order you in the name of JaheShua MischaJah to come out of her.” And it came out that very hour."
The same Spirit that authorized Paul... and Peter... and John... and Moses... and Jeremiah... and Exekiel... and Daniel... and Abel... and Noah... and many, many others... is the SAME Spirit that I am heralding to you today... and have been for so many years. That Spirit has NOT changed... nor does the "gifts" one receives from that One. He is the same... yesterday, today... and tomorrow. Some, however, apparently expect... indeed wish... to "see" a DIFFERENT Spirit. But how can that be? It is because the Spirit they are looking for... the one they WANT to see... is the one that has been preached to them by imposters, "false christs" and "false prophets." A Spirit that is DIFFERENT from the Most Holy One of Israel (which they wish to see as a judgmental, vengeful, rash, ardous, and angry tyrant, which is a LIE, as evidenced by His image and reflection, Christ)... and from the Holy One of Israel (which they wish to see as a Lamb SO meek, he has absolutely NO boldness, which is LIE, as evidenced by his bold condemnation of the acts of the scribes, Pharisees, tax collectors, hypocrites... and blasphemers).
Moses was called the "meekest man" on earth. Yet, he not only had the courage to go and DEMAND of Pharaoh, the KING, that Israel be set free... but he literally killed a man in defense of another. Meekness... is not silence. And it is not mealy-mouthed words to appease the weak consciences of others. Meekness is knowing that you ARE nothing... know nothing... and are GOOD... for NOTHING... except to used as a vessel, instrument... by God... and a willingness to go and do so, even if you are to be ridiculed and humiliated for it.
To those to profess to be of the Body of Christ, therefore, I call upon you to NOT be the kind that shrinks back... to NOT be afraid to make a defense for EVERYONE who demands of you a reason for your faith, but to put your trust in JAH... the Most Holy One of Israel... and His Son, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit... who called you to this fate. We WILL have tribulation in the world - we cannot run or hide from it. But, our Lord has conquered the world. Even though they put HIM to death... he is alive. Coming here for him, however, is nothing like being asked to carry the sins of others, even those who are your enemies. It's not like being asked to have your flesh impaled. It's not like having nails driven into your hands and feet, or a spear into your side... while you are still alive. It is not like being made a shame and a spectacle... by being hung on a tree, literally.
It is merely like carrying a torture tree: long, large, and heavy... but not impossible. And if it was the torture tree of someone you LOVED... TRULY loved... you, too, would get under that one's "yoke"... and help him carry his load. I am doing nothing more than that. For someone I love. TRULY love... more than my own life... and own popularity. It does not matter to me if folks call me names, delusional, crazy, even Beelzebub. They called my Lord such, as well. Who am I, then, to despise the "shame" that HE carried? I do not.
So, please... do not concern yourself or grow sad or anxious as to what is occurring with me here. It is the lot of those who TRULY are not concerned with being "part of the world." We don't speak the same language (lies, falsehoods, deceits, flatteries)... and we don't serve the same God... as they, if they serve any god at all. And so, it is what it is. And I accept it. I knew what I was getting into when I accepted my torture tree... when I said, "Here I am! Send me!" And I am not alone.
So, let your hearts be at peace. I am fine. Truly. And if you cannot "stomach" this... then you're gonna have a heck of a time "stomaching" the War at Har-Maggedon which, while yet afar off... will come.
I bid you peace... and ears to hear, if you so wish it... when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:
"Come! Take 'life's water'... free!"
Which, as one of those HEARING... I do say.
A slave of Christ,
SA
So are only those who agree with Shelby allowed to post on "her" threads? No dissenting views?
And if some are upset by responses that challenge her posts, why don't they simply not open the thread?
I don't understand the issue. Especially when Shelby/AGuest herself says that she is "okay" and can handle those that challenge her.
It seems that a problem only arose when NVL/OTWO went toe to toe with her and wouldn't back down.
No?.....Cult Classic
Mocking someones beliefs is only funny,for so long..
At some point you need to be able to prove them wrong,or let it go..
Endlessly mocking someone..Without being able to prove them wrong,is Harrassing..
As much as I like the 2 posters mentioned..
Hounding Shelby has to Stop..
Endless Heckling is not productive on anyones thread..
..........................
...OUTLAW
Agreed, Outlaw.
Cyberstalking.
Ugly stuff.
Syl
Agree to disagree and either continue discussion or move on.
Usually continuing the discussion means more of the same, since you're not supposed to post off topic. Moving on would end the thread.
And I'm saying "went toe to toe" for lack of a better phrase at the moment. That may not be the intent of NVL/OTWO or others who disagree with Shelby.
Peace out guys! You're all ok by me.
With all due respect to you Lady Lee (and I do respect your opinions), as you yourself pointed out, Shelby uses her writings as a not very subtle, passive-aggressive way of putting others down and insulting them.
In my opinion, it is not bashing her to point this out. It is not bashing her to disagree with her ideas. If some people on this forum see a danger in her ideas/delusions and feel a need to expose them to the light of day, how is that any less valid than exposing the dangerous delusions in the WTBTS?
Many here have tried to do this in a reasonable and respectful way only to be met with the frustrating wall of intellectual dishonesty. I personally gave up because I believe it is not fully intentional but is a mental health issue. Others choose to continue using satire and parody to point out the delusional ideas because they see a danger in others following Shelby and hope to prevent that. There is validity to both viewpoints, I think.
There is a long standing and respected tradition of writers using humor, satire and parody to make fun of and point out bad ideas, political, religious and social. This provides a valuable check in society, I believe. It prevents the lemmings who may be teetering on the edge of the cliff from falling over.
If Shelby is mentally ill and needs special protection from the barbs of wit aimed at her ideas, as SixofNine suggests, she should not be allowed to post here in one-sided delusional rants that influence the weak-minded. If she is a mature adult, as we all are, and should be able to freely express her thoughts and opinions here, then her thoughts and ideas should not be specially protected from the dissenting viewpoints. She puts them out there, she should be able to defend them.
Satire and parody usually only offends those who see themselves in it. NVL has not insulted or attacked Shelby directly or personally as she has him. He is attacking her ideas and his only crime is being funny and dead on in his delivery.
As Sam Harris said (paraphrasing): I believe in attacking bad ideas wherever I find them.
Specifically, she should not be allowed to post as if God is speaking thru her.
God is not speaking through me, dear Six (peace to you!). Never has. I've never said He has. That you don't get that is.. well... interesting. On the matter currently be discussed, may I ask... as one who truly does not want attention... if we can just agree... to disagree... and you and dear CD, et al., just go on and stop discussing "Shelby"? She REALLY isn't worth all of this, truly, and discussing her only directs more attention TO her. Which is what you've repeatedly accused HER of doing. Why not just let her fade into the background and post like everyone else?
Otherwise, you all really MUST take responsibility for "all of the attention" placed on her... because you really ARE the ones making all of the noise and hullabaloo ABOUT her. No one else. Indeed, you've done more in the past few months to call attention and point folks to her than she... and all of the other posters combined have done... since the opening of the Board.
She IS curious as to just why that is... why you all pay SO much attention to her and what she posts... but knows "you all" will NEVER cop to it.
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
And, if she is permitted to post as if God speaks through her, then NVL should be able to do the same, parody or not. After all, can any of us prove that God does not speak through NVL?
There cannot be two standards for different posters.
