"Birthdays rob the glory of God" (page 10)

The Finger

Debator,

the only thing you preach is the death of our lord not the resurrection, which robs the glory of God.

caliber

What comes to my mind is if birthdays are "so obviously pagan.". why did it take so long for the F&DS to figure it out ?

Jan 1, 1940 Watchtower, p. 16, under "Field Experiences":

CLEVELAND, OHIO: "Pardon me for intruding on your precious time, but I just can’t help letting you know how much I appreciate the phonograph which came to me on the morning after the 8th, which was my 80th birthday. It was indeed a birthday gift from Jehovah, to be used in proclaimer his name. May grace and strength be given me to do with my might what my hands find to do."

The next mention of a birthday celebration in the Watchtower Magazine comes in 1951:

*** w51 10/1 p. 607 Questions from Readers ***

Debator .....do you think it would be wise to call a birthday "gift from Jehovah" ? How could such a wise spiritual group not see the pagan roots....

had not Jehovah cleansed them in 1919 ?

From reading the JW history book ( proclaimers ) It appears to me that all this dropping of holidays was to draw a line in the sand

between Bible students and the newly formed Jehovah's witness. (We are so much more righteous than the Bible Student they celebrate pagan holidays )

It appears to me it was more about drawing a distinction between the two groups than any sudden appeal to greater righteousness

Maybe the cleansing didn't happen in 1919 but was an 'overlapping " cleansing

If the actual date of our birth is so important why isn't one single date of birth put in the Bible?

Maybe it's so UN-important to God whether we celebrate it or not, that he didn't put it in the Bible...... Palmtree

If they are so unimportant why this debate? why must we celebrate them?

No one I recall said we must celebrate.. but you did say we must not celebrate or inferred it

You thus make this a salvation issue for everyone else !! ...that is the issue !!

debator

Hi thetrueone

If they are so unimportant why this debate? why must we celebrate them? Why must people have done them in secret? why rush at them like a person dying of thirst to do them once you are no longer a Jehovah's witness? Why do we make so much of them? It is estimated Billions of money changes hands over these unimportant feastdays world-wide.

How did the Queen show recognition of the world-wide recession? She cancel her staff members palace Christmas party and it made the news.

designs

Debator-

If you want to follow this prescription of beliefs you are free to do so. I am familar with the history of Judaism and Christianity and the offshoots like JWs. My Bible Student and JW family history on my maternal side goes back to 1900 with Russell's group. We went through every whim and change from the days when we celebrated Chrstmas and Birthdays to the time when we stopped.

My heart is now towards my family and their future on this beautiful planet, I am an environmetalist among other vocations. I don't believe in a god who will destroy humanity, the Bible's message, because he needs to feel like God. A Supreme Being is obviously a little bigger than that Bronze Age notion.

OUTLAW

Hey designs..

My dad wasn`t so bad it was my mom..Although she could get my dad going and I`d get a beating..

She was a real JW Nazi..LOL!!..

I got 2 black eyes from her before I even was old enough to go to school..LOL!!..

JW Kids will tell people they don`t want to Celebrate Birthdays or Christmas,out of Survival..

Their JW Parents will beat the shit out of them if they don`t..

I knew lots of JW Parents that would go Postal on their children,if they didn`t agree with WBT$ beliefs..

Being a JW Kid is not a lot of fun..

But..

You better make it look like it is,or face the Consequences..

................................. ...OUTLAW

debator

Hi Caliber

The difference was first drawing a line with Bible scripture and then applying bible principles. It takes time to recognise and apply these.

I think we did it fairly quickly considering 1700 years of Catholic stranglehold on doctrine, Bible usage and on pain of death too until recent centuries.

That we can go back to early Christian example basically applying bible principles that serve us well in a modern world (that is so given over to pleasure seeking) is quite unique of Witnesses IMO. We do not try to have our Christmas or birthday cake and eat them, we simply reject them as the Early Christians did who also knew that there is no mixing of God's way with the pagan celebrations around them without damage to your spirituality.

1 Corinthians 10:20-21 (New International Version)

20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.

Ding

Debator,

It's not us making a big deal about birthdays; it's the Watchtower.

As many of us have said, we don't care one way or the other whether someone celebrates birthdays.

It's the WTS that requires JWs to take the position they do and makes them look down on people who don't follow the organizational dictates.

Read Romans 14 and stop condemning other people for what days they choose to observe.

thetrueone

why must we celebrate them? Why must people have done them in secret?

No one is arguing the point about you must celebrate anything what this topic is about is the

no birthday doctrine put forth by the WTS. such as it's validity, does it have biblical credence ?

One thing that has to noted is this no BD celebrations is connected to Christendom's celebration

of Christ's birth, which we all know is a farce and it most definitely is connected to pagan traditions.

What the WTS had done to highlight this proclaiming doctrine, they instituted that no one should practice BD

to keep their spirituality clean before god as it were.

For example I don't celebrate XMAS , but I do make it an effort to make it to my nieces and nephews birthday parities

for I know the reason I'm there has no connection to spiritualism at all.

mrsjones5

Show me the commandment in the Bible that says that Christians are not to celebrate birthdays. The Bible not the watchtower.

debator

Hi designs

You have made a god after your own wishes and thoughts but it is not Jehovah and that is your choice. The bible is a hard real book to read, it doesn't hold it's punches concerning our condition. It gives us it straight between the eyes and it takes a brave man to face the reality of the world we live in and where sin is leading us. But a braver man to then see our possibility under Jehovah's rule and be prepared to reject the instant gratification of this world for a hope not seen yet, having faith in Jehovah.

If this world worked Birthdays and Christimas wouldn't be just the milieu of richer countries and poorer ones pressing their faces against the windows of our wealth and celebration of it, in their need and want.

Hi Ding

We simply like the first century Christians reject them as we/they do many other pagan celebrations from other religions as not part of our Christian life under Jehovah whom we honour above all. We are not making a fuss but simply applying a Bible principle.

Hi Mrs jones

The difference is between applying Bible principle as Christians or just following a set of rules like the jews.

"Birthdays rob the glory of God"

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