by sabastious 202 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Birthdays rob the glory of God
This is such an infantile and stupid comment. Where is it written in scripture? If this were true then why do witnesses celebrate the "pre-birth day" (baby showers). Why do they bring gifts to a newborn? By watchtower's rule, would these not be robbing "the glory of God"?
HI TJ
Birthdays were pagan, continued to be pagan and still ARE pagan celebrations right up until today.
These are not things, events or items but Annual rememberances, sacred days, huge celebrations. Man celebrating man and they do not even pretend anymore to have anything to do with God.
People say the "worship God" but if the two Main celebrations they have in a year are all about celebrating themselves and having a party, where is the glorification of God?
2 Timothy 3:5
having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
How important are these celebrations to you? how sacred are they compared to God? Is it easier to give up God than a Birthday? Would you force people to do them for their kids?
The Bible only records two birthday celebrations. Pharaoh of Egypt had all the first-born babies killed on his birthday, and Herod Antipas had John the Baptist beheaded on his. The Society argue that out of respect for those that lost their lives on birthdays, their members should avoid happy celebration of their own birthdays and those of their children. Anyone who disobeys is disfellowshipped.
The other reason given is that birthday celebrations “exalt” the one whose birthday it is and makes him or her the centre of attention rather than God. (The Truth That Leads to Eternal Life - Page 146)
These seem rather vague reasons for expelling members from the “spiritual paradise” costing them their chance of everlasting life. As there is no scriptural prohibition against celebrating birthdays, what is the charge on which offenders are disfellowshipped? Well, on the occasions that I witnessed members being expelled in this way, the charge of apostasy was used!
You may wonder how throwing a birthday party for one’s child or attending a party to celebrate the birth of Christ can be deemed apostasy? Well, as the Watchtower Society has decided that its members must not recognise birthdays, to do so is an act of disobedience towards them and a challenge to their authority. The charge then is one of apostasy against the Society. As they believe that they speak for God himself, the offence is viewed as disobedience towards God.
I am sorry if you find it difficult to follow this reasoning but so did the friends of mine that were disfellowshipped on this charge. Their crime was to hold a small private birthday party for their little girl. The little girl in her excitement told the child of another Witness. This child’s parents duly reported the infringement of the rules to the elders. Both parents said they felt they had done nothing unscriptural but were disfellowshipped the same week and then shunned by the congregation. They were so appalled by their treatment that they remained outside the organization and decided to prayerfully seek “the truth” elsewhere.
If the elders were not to stamp out such conduct, just think of the consequences. The idea could catch on and children throughout the Witness movement could suddenly find themselves celebrating their birthdays and being made to feel special for one day each year!
As with so many other Society rules it may be only a matter of time before the rules are changed. This will be of little comfort to those parents who were thrown out for breaching Society law or the children who have grown up without ever having a birthday party or attending one held by their friends.
Hi Gladiator
As witnesses we allow Bible principles and commands to mold us as also indeed did the early Christians who themselves refused to start celebrating the pagan Birthdays so prevalent around them.
It is historically shown that it wasn't until the heavy influence of pagan rome started pulling Christianity it's way that they crumbled and to started celebrating these pagan feastdays.
Where early Christians Evil for not celebrating Birthdays?
These witnesses you use as an example held a "private" party, if they felt it wasn't wrong why the secrecy?
We are told to keep apart from the world and away from idolatry in all it's forms including the sacred days pagans hold so dear.
You are a rich and affluent man inviting a most valued guest to your home would you go out and get the mouldy leftovers from another man's house and serve them to him?
You cannot whitewash pagan traditions and make them over to Jehovah or his son. The same as the Jews couldn't make-over an egyptian inspired Golden Calf to Jehovah either. Pagan remains pagan as the trestament of time and the people show.
Like I said earlier a good portion of people on these forums reject religion and any pretense at belief in God yet they fully embrace birthdays and Xmas, Why? because they know themselves these feastdays have absolutely nothing to do with God or his son Jesus.
What about celebrating "Gotcha Day"? We adopted our daughter on June 10th, 2003 in Ekaterinburg, Russia .
Every June 10th we celebrate the day we "got her" and the day we became a family. The bakery always asks what gotcha day is and they love the idea. My wife explains that our daughter's birthday is not as important as her, gotcha day. For most children, the day they are born is the day they became part of a family- June 10th is the anniversay of the day we became a family.
Now as far as pagan roots go- you have to have a calendar to have an annual birthday celebration. The rich and educated had calendars, they could read, too. I think the poor might have been envious of their wealthy lords who celebrated birthdays, because they had no idea what day or even what year that they were born in. We still find people today who don't know what day they were born on. It is up to the parents to record this birth information and if they can't write, don't understand calendars, it's not important or they forget the exact day, then it is forever lost. Perhaps Jesus was one of those persons who didn't have any idea of his birthday, only the season, that he was born.
So for any JW who wants to honor their child's gotcha day, I say hooray!
Secular history completely supports Christians taking a stand against Birthdays until about the 3rd century. The Bible has no problem mentioning Jewish or Christian dates of importance! Birthdays are shown to be pagan. The Jewish Calender doesn't even lend itself to celebrating a fixed yearly date that is not how it works, Don't you ever wonder why the passover always changes date?
What about the JW founder Charles Taze Russell.....self-appoinited THE Faithful & Discreet Slave and THE Angel of Laodicia? When Jesus supposively chose these IBS's as his true followers in 1919......they were celebrating BIRTHDAYS! Let me guess.....the light gets brighter bullshit!. Yeah, that makes alot of sense. If the bible & secular history was so clear on the matter of birthdays, those frauds could have did away with something that simple way back before Jesus chose them.
It's all a bunch of JW Pharisee legalism and group mind control. Bringing a lifetime of scorn & ridicule on these little kids over nothing.
Think About It
debator Trying to lump together personal birthdays with the religious festival of Christmas is disingenuous.
It is true to say that birthdays 'have absolutely nothing to do with God or his son Jesus.' They are about people enjoying celebrating their birthday and being made to feel special for one day each year! Wedding anniversaries are celebrated for the same reason. These are secular occasions, celebrated by people of all persuasions and are part of our culture.
The Watchtower society is not adverse to embracing cultural customs, even though they have pagan origins. Among other pagan customs accepted by the Society are wedding receptions, wedding cakes, the lighting of candles, white wedding dresses, bridesmaids, wedding rings, ear- rings, honeymoons and so on.
Strangely, the throwing of confetti is singled out as pagan and strictly forbidden. The wearing of a beard is heavily frowned upon. Are you aware that shaving is a totally pagan Egyptian and Greek custom, adopted by the Romans, but unheard of among Israelites and the early Christians?
The early Christians disagreed over which festivals and customs they should observe, so Apostle Paul said: “Therefore let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a Sabbath.” (Colossians 2:16 - NWT)
Whatever the origin of our various customs, it is how they are viewed today, and the motive behind observing them in the present that is relevant. Folk law, custom and heritage, impinge on every aspect of life, even the language we speak. So how do the Watchtower Society decide on these matters with such inconsistency, and why are such opinions made into law?
Since Jesus knew all about Birthday celebrations, if they are so wrong, why didn't he preach against them? It seems like more of a cultural thing to me, it just wasn't the Jewish custom at the time, so what. There were probably many things the Romans did differently than the Jews, it doesn't make any of those things wrong.
For example, (I'm making this up, obviously), say the Roman sandals had 3 straps, the Jewish sandles had 2 straps. Now Jesus knew all about the 3 strap sandles, but didn't choose to wear them. Beside 3 straps are not necessary when 2 will do, it must be a vanity thing, and vanity is wrong and takes away from worship of God. So no true christian would ever wear 3 strap sandals, right?
Reniaa-bator said: Jesus didn't celebrate Birthdays (despite being fully aware of them!)
So why didn't Jesus condemn them, since he was "fully aware of them"?
(His cousin being beheaded at one)
So in other words, you're saying that Christians shouldn't celebrate any festival where someone dies? Using that logic, JWs shouldn't be celebrating the Memorial every Nissan 14, because guess what? Jesus died!! Care you explain your double standard on this one?
So we Christians don't celebrate Birthdays. It is as simple as that.
Ah, but can you explain why you have other pagan practices still in place? Let's see.....what about baptism? Baptism is considered the most important day in a any Witnesses' life, yet it did not originate with Christianity, but in fact, was an ancient pagan practice that the Watchtower itself admits:
"The practice of baptism, however, predates the Christian faith. It was employed in Babylonia and in ancient Egypt, where the cold waters of the Nile were thought to increase strength and bestow immortality. The Greeks also believed that baptism could bring regeneration or could procure immortality for the initiate."----Watchtower April 1, 1993 p. 4
Wow! Imagine that! God's chosen ones today are practicing an ancient, pagan practice that's linked to (gasp!) the immortality of the soul doctrine!! Oh the humanity!!!
The Egyptians had a custom when a crocodile dragged a person into the Nile and drowned him. When his body was recovered, the priests embalmed the remains, arrayed it in beautiful robes and placed it in a sacred sarcophagus. They treated his body "'as one who is more than an ordinary being.' A man drowned in this way was called one who had been 'immersed' [baptized]." The Egyptians believed that the immersion of the drowned man identified him with special status. He was no longer ordinary, but extraordinary. So it is with Christians. Their baptism identifies them with their new extraordinary place in the plan of God: they are sons of God, royal priests, and raised to newness of life.
Despite baptism clearly being of pagan origin, Jehovah's Witnesses get baptized and insist on it as identifying individuals as being part of "God's organization." They are not allowed to celebrate a holiday that has any pagan origin, yet they will openly-and in fact are told they must---partake in a practice that clearly came from pagan origins. According to their reasoning a holiday that has pagan origins is displeasing to Jehovah. How can this be, if the pagan practice of baptism is not?
The short of it all that yes birthday celebrations started out as a pagan celebration in ancient times, but as a social act
today it has nothing to do with worshiping a god or king with the exception of Christendom's Xmas.
Many on here say religion is meaningless to them now but they happily celebrate these, why?
The answer to that - Debator
One thing that you could use against this theological interpretation is Jesus's words
when he commanded all of his followers to love one another, his strongest commandment.
Being the power playing frauds ( liars ) as they are the WTS. spoused that
celebrating your loved ones birthday is a wrongful sin, when in actuality it is the opposite.
The celebrating of birthdays could also be considered an act to increase ones
interpersonal relationships with your family members and closest friends.
The WTS. leaders know nothing about social psychology either as you can tell.
I can see and never have argued the point of true Christianity shouldn't be involved with pagan rooted celebrations.
Especially when December 25th was actually the birthday of a pagan god which I cant remember the name of.
Individualistic personal birthday celebrations have no connection with devoted spiritual worship as it once was.
This created no personal birthday celebrations was just another of the wrongly concocted laws/commandments handed down on to
to the disingenuously devised WTS. Hierarchal seers.
