Ray Franz Was Wrong

by Farkel 144 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  wobble

  I cannot believe that ,to a degree, they do not know exactly what they are doing.

  Just look back on your former cult self, you knew when you were not telling the whole truth to a householder, because until their faith had been "built up" (= sufficiently indoctrinated) they could not bear it.

  You knew you were being somewhat economical with the truth.

  The newer members of the GB, as they join, are like that, they feel it is God's Organization and they go along with the belittling of the R and F, believing that they are not strong enough to know the truth.

  At this point they still believe they are doing God's work.

  As the years roll by, an honest man, like dear Ray Franz comes to realise that the GB consists of men., doing men's work, and has to leave.

  We have not had an honourable, honest man on the GB since Ray left.

  They cannot read the thought controlling lies produced by the writing boys without knowing the truth of their situation.

  They are merely victims of circumstance, once they realise the truth, they do not have anywhere else to go that will give them anything like the rock-star lifestyle they enjoy as a member of the GB.
• 

  Gayle

  To me, neither Ray nor Cynthia were ever in for the 'glory' at Bethel. They were always down to earth, humble, approachable, never 'uppity,' available to welcome the 'new boys," available to the 'least' of them. Ray's morning texts weeks were of the most stimulating, but most of the Governing Body in the '70s were only almost word for word repeats of what we all had already read in the WT. (After awhile I would have to have my instant coffee 'before' going down for text/breakfast so that their comments would not put me back to sleep ). Only Knorr would have things a little more original occasionally, maybe about something organizational, but often of more scolding type comments.

  For sure, Ray and Cynthia, their love was the missionary work, being with the people. They were loyal, of course, followers also, to the organization, when called to Bethel. It was when he became a part of the 'leadership' GB level/reality that he found himself in a different realm, a time of crisis, a time when a personal conscience went now deeper and feeling more the heavy reality of accountability. I have no problem forgiving his errors there as he more proved to with time to try to change things for the right. He proved to me, that there is no way or hope to try to change things there for the right.
• 

  still wondering

  Yes, on this point Ray Franz was most definitely and completely wrong.

  Why would anyone expect him to say otherwise? He was part and parcel of the whole deception until he could no longer stand the guilt and strain of perpetrating deliberate lies while simultaneously claiming to be the sole representative of the GOD OF TRUTH. It all became too much for him.

  But I don’t see him admitting that they all knew it was a fraud and an outrageous deception that was perpetrated on millions of people as this would clearly reflect on him and the time that he spent as an integral and leading part of this great deception.

  Raymond Franz, for all his subsequent good work at attempting to make amends for his part in this great deception, was always reluctant to bear his share of the responsibility and hence has NEVER apologised publicly for his gross error in perpetuating the Watchtower LIES.
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Ray was too kind.
• 

  cyberjesus

  I love all his posts but I think he that statement to be false, here is why:

  Farkel says that the statement " JWs are victims or victims is wrong". That only the RnF are victims. Who is a victim?

  vic·tim

      [ vik -tim ] Show IPA –noun 1. a person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency: a victim of an automobile accident. 2. a person who is deceived or cheated, as by his or her own emotions or ignorance, by the dishonesty of others, or by some impersonal agency: a victim of misplaced confidence; the victim of a swindler; a victim of an optical illusion. Going by that definition.. Unless you knew that the WT was a croak before you joined in then WE ALL WHO BECAME JWS are victims ALL, no matter what your position within. It doesnt matter what your role inside the WT was as long as you were deceived into believing that the JWs were Gods direct chanel then you are a victim. Does that take responsibility from you? No, we are responsible for our own actions, that is unless your brain is deceived into believing that your actions are blessed by the Supreme Creator of the Universe. The founder of the laws. My father is an elder in Mexico, he is an honest, good man, he is respected withing the BORG and outside. He follows the laws pays his taxes, never breaks any law, either the laws of the country or laws of the WT. However he practices Shunning, Which is Emotional Abuse, He has participated in countless JCs and has Dfd many many JWs based on the laws of the WT. He IS A VICTIM but at the same time he is a PERPETRATOR. He has a brain like you and me. He in many times has seen that what the WT does is against the bible but since he is part of the WT machine he is under mind control. He sees that many things are wrong but THE HIGHEST LAW according to him tells him that he needs to wait on JEHOVAH the creator and that he will fix any errors made by humans. Can you see the problem? He can see that the laws might be unjust but he is told that he has to have FAITH that GOD knows better than him so eveen if he can not comprehend them he has to follow and leave it in the hands of JEHOVAH. THE GB is the same, They are Perpetrators, they know their rules and abusive and murderous but they are part of the machine too. They are victims too, they are deceived. But THEY ARE IDIOTS!! they are not intelligent people. THEY ARE STUPID since they dont realize that their rules are made by man and not by God, they are deluded. Ray FRANZ was deceived as well, he WAS PERPETRATOR BUT he was also a VICTIM. However he was smart enough to relize that something was wrong. Therfore he brought it up to the BODY because he still was deceived and he realized that the whole body was STUPID. THAT they were a bunch of IDIOTS although he didnt say it, what else could he think? he called them VICTIMS OF VICTIMS but forgot to add PERPETRATORS TO PERPETRATORS, IDIOTS OF IDIOTS. ANY Person who goes door to door trying to teach you that you will leave in a paradise if you become a JW is a deceiving person. Every publisher is a perpetrator, and everyperson who believes them is a VICTIM.
• 

  Nathan Natas

  I'm with Farkel on this. In my opinion, Ray Franz was being unneccessarily kind to the people who run the WTB&TS.

  A victim is a person who has been deceived or made to suffer injury, loss or death. The person who causes deception, injury, loss or death is properly called either a criminal or a culprit or, as has already been pointed out, a perpetrator. There is still a schizm today among the ranks of XJWs over whether Ray Franz was "soft" on the pedophile issue. He claimed that in all his years of Watchtower service, at all the levels within the organization in which he served, he had NEVER heard of a case of pedophilia. Personally, since I knew of a pedophile in my home congregation when I was merely a ministerial servant (the 1970's), I find Ray's claim strains credibility. We know that Mark Palo was abused by the criminal Bethelite Leo Greenlees in the early 1960s. Mark wasn't Greenlees' only victim, and Greenlees was forced to leave Bethel. Recalling all the Bible stories I was taught about the "mighty men of old" who stood up for righteousness, I can recall NONE who were so delicate, fragile, prim and proper that they were unable to even discuss evil, as though they were someone's ninety-year-old spinster aunt. ...and yet that is precisely what some of these guys want to be seen as. I don't buy it. When a victim violate someone else, he becomes a criminal. Period. And Satanus makes a good point: Ray Franz did not leave the WTB&TS voluntarily, he was forced out.
• 

  cyberjesus

  NN: When a victim becomes a criminal he is still a victim of a crime, he is a criminal of a new crime. Period period.
• 

  wasblind

  Hey Cyb, are you sayin' like Patty Hearst ?
• 

  t33ap80c

  Here are some of my thoughts on this matter from "Captives of a Concept":

  "How is it possible for such men (of the Governing Body) to be anything but completely truthful with those who depend on them for all of their "direction and guidance in matters of worship"?

  "The first answer that may come to mind is that the Society’s religious leaders are no different than the religious leaders of Jesus’ day whom he said were ‘hypocrites, serpents, and offspring of vipers.’ But there is something that the apostle Paul said that might be an alternative explanation that doesn’t necessarily require these men to be hypocrites, serpents or offspring of vipers…

  'Because they did not accept the love of the truth... t hat is why God lets an operation of error go to them that they may get to believing the lie. -Thessalonians 2:10,11 " Only God knows if this is how He has been dealing with these men, but if this is what is going on it would explain a lot. Once they 'get to believing the lie' (that the Society is God's organization) then the lie becomes the truth in their minds. And once that happens it doesn’t matter what the Bible says or what went on in the Society’s history. Nothing will be allowed to disprove the lie.

  "Anything that is contrary to it will either be ignored, as is done throughout their Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom book, or else it will be manipulated to force it to apparently fit the lie, as is also done throughout their Proclaimers book.And yet they will do these things while thinking they are being candid in their efforts to uphold the truth.

  "Apparently this is one of the strange ways the human mind is capable of working when 'God lets an operation of error go to them that they may get to believing the lie.'"

  In my book I tend to lean toward this way of viewing the men of the Governing Body and then leave it up to God decide what He is going to do with them. This way of looking at these men doesn't excuse what they do but it may help to explain why they do it.

  Don Cameron
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  Nathan Natas

  Cyberjesus, I don't make excuses for criminals. Everyone has hardship in thier live, yet not all become criminals.

  It is a choice to perpetuate the injury. Period period period no excuses exclaimation point.