Ray Franz Was Wrong (page 6)

Farkel

min,

:Yet he did not even want to leave. He wanted to work to make changes. Why? Was he a big bad perp of the WBT$? I don't think so.

Right. But you can't un-ring a bell. What Ray did and what NONE of the others on the GB has EVER done, was come to grips with the wrong he was part of and come clean with it. I'm sure he prayed many, many times to God for forgiveness for his complicity when he was a GB member.

And I'm sure that if God can forgive anyone, God forgave Ray.

How do you think God feels about unrepentant religious masters, though? Especially ones who have irreparably harmed hundreds and hundreds of thousands of lives over the decades and not taken a shred of responsibility for it.

Farkel

minimus

Some people are leaders. Others tend to follow. Some of those men may not have been wicked as much as they followed or hoped or actually believed.

Farkel

:Fark, do you think Ray Franz was at all a "victim"?

I think it's worthwhile to compare how Ray comported himself as a GB member, together with how most of the others comported themselves. Ray never indicated that he voted for some of the new wacky ideas proposed as doctrine or policy. He wrote a genuine article of apology for the 1975 fiasco, only to see it watered down by others who were too proud to look like the fools they actually were.

He also indicated that he swallowed the whole 607 BC crap until he actually researched the matter. But as a GB member, he should have been intimately familiar with the support for the cornerstone doctrine of the WTS long before he actually researched it. He was responsible for not doing that.

I guess I consider Ray to have been naive, and I guess it is fair to say there were probably other GB members in the same boat. But as a body, the GB is guilty as charged, IMHO.

Farkel

minimus

So it would be fair to say that some of these men were "victims". If they might be considered "naive", it is probable that they were not obstinate proud "religious masters".

minimus

These men would not be victims if they truly believed they were 100% wrong and still pushed their errors. I have to think some of these men were true believers in their theocratic heritage.

Others, I believe might've clearly known it was all a lie and still proceeded to push their BS (like today's GB---as a "class").

potleg

Are some who are naive upon thier appointment to the GB? Maybe.

However I don't believe they remain naive once on the inside.

serenitynow!

I think that what is important to keep in mind is that Ray knew and worked closely with the other members of the GB. He saw the GB from a different perspective than the R&F. Maybe that's why he did not see the GB as being inherently evil, but somehow misled. When he called them victims, that was simply his opinion based on his experiences, and should not be taken as fact. Opinions can not be labeled as right or wrong, we can only agree or disagree. If we were privy to all the knowledge Ray had of the members of the GB, and all the experiences, maybe we would see them as victims.

It is my opinion as a R&F member that the GB is evil, that its members are corrupt, and that is why the JW cult is rotten at its very core. If there is a god, and if there is a Hell, then it is my belief that the GB and the other upper-level people in the org will (should) burn for all eternity.

caliber

The governing body took it's power in 1976..... Ray was totally gone by 1980-81 (emotionally and spiritually

he was gone maybe even a year or two before that ) In the other years he talks about the great openness

that took place in 1976- 77 .. he was hopeful of inward reform. I see minimal accountability in this man .

Anyway the first act of seeking forgiveness is to right the wrongs if possible . He wrote two wonderful

books to help free others and reverse his thinking.....how much more to you expect of a man ? I say the responsibly now rest with those of the GB from 1981,

Ray opened doors to which others could now have followed ; before this the Presidents were responsible.(1976 )

minimus

good thread!

Ray Franz Was Wrong

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