Marital Due and the KS

by yknot 96 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  djeggnog

  @djeggnog wrote:

  To be honest, @Lady Lee, I thought I should tell you that I think it rather lame that you are telling me here that the only copy you have of your entire video is on a video tape, when I would think (and do think!) that what with folks blatantly ignoring the WTS copyright on the new textbook that "you guys" could care less about the rights of the copyrightholder of your video, so that it wouldn't be impossible for you to PM me a copy of the video. You may not like it, but this is how I see things. You don't want me to see a copy of your video and I don't want to pay for a copy, and so it seems we have an impasse.

  @Lady Lee wrote:

  Well whether you believe it or not all I have is a VHS tape that was given to me shortly after the tape was done. Other than the person who owns the interview and the VHS tape (and who has made them into digital copies only available recently on the internet) I don't know anyone who has the digital copy. I was never sent one to replace the VHS tape. And I have never figured out how to copy VHS tapes to a CD.

  Just to be clear, it's not that I don't believe your statement to the effect that you do not have a digital copy of your interview, it's not that I don't believe that the only copy you have of your interview is on VHS tape, but what you have sought to communicate to me (or so it seems) is that you have no line to any of your friends here that has actually purchased a copy of the video containing your interview from whom you can ask to send you a digital copy, whether in .MP3 or .WMA, or .MP4, .WMV or .AVI format.

  You indicate that it's "a short 7 minute clip of an 85 minute long interview done in 2000," so why it is you want me to believe that you know no one on this forum that would be kind enough to send you just the compressed audio joint stereo portion of your interview (e.g., 11025/16 kbps [sample frequency/bit rate]) suggests you have no friends here that would be willing to do this for you is just lame. (I really just want to listen to the interview!)

  If you don't mind I will take the comments about the interview to a new thread.

  Ok.

  @Curtains:

  Plagiarism is when the source material is not referenced. Randy Watters clearly tells us where he got his material and he tells us how he is going to use the material. Adapting the paragraph headings to suit his purposes is not plagiarism because he has already told us he is going to do this.

  This is not all the man does. First of all, do you have a copy of Lifton's book, "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism, A Study of 'Brainwashing' in China"? Yes or no? Secondly, do you have a copy of Watters' book, "Understanding Mind Control of Jehovah's Witnesses"? Yes or no? If you cannot answer "yes" to both of these questions, then I'm curious how it is you can come back here and tell me how you compared the contents of Lifton's book with Watters' book and didn't find Lifton's "thought-reform procedure" to not essentially be what Watters has renamed "Lifton's Eight Criteria of Mind Control Cults."

  We're hijacking @yknot's thread, which isn't right. If you want, we can pick this up in the new thread that @Lady Lee started reference above.

  @djeggnog
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  Curtains

  djeggnogg - reply to you on lady lee's thread
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  daringhart13

  2 Corinthians 7 is one of the most widely ignored chapters by JW's..........'sisters' can just stop having sex with their husbands without any recourse......no one will touch it with a ten foot pole.

  Then they wonder why the other party cheats or gets involved in porn. Then the sister shows up at meetings crying and everyone feels sorry for her. Meanwhile, very few publishers know that the guy have been in a sexless marriage for many years.

  Oh well........its all Bible Ala Carte.....choose what we want, ignore what we don't. In my opinion, the JW's biggest sin by far....
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  djeggnog

  @daringhart13:

  [1 Corinthians 7] is one of the most widely ignored chapters by JW's..........'sisters' can just stop having sex with their husbands without any recourse......no one will touch it with a ten foot pole. Then they wonder why the other party cheats or gets involved in porn. Then the sister shows up at meetings crying and everyone feels sorry for her. Meanwhile, very few publishers know that the guy have been in a sexless marriage for many years.

  Because I don't believe you meant to write "2 Corinthians 7," I edited the quote (above) accordingly. Perhaps you might yourself be guilty of having ignored some of the things you have read in the Bible when you were actively associated with Jehovah's Witnesses (assuming here that you are no longer actively associated with them), but nothing in the Bible is ignored by those who are genuine Witnesses of Jehovah, including what things the apostle Paul states at 1 Corinthians chapter 7 regarding Christian marriages. If a brother should for whatever reason lose interest in paying the marital due he owes to his wife, he is free to do so. A wife should not leave her husband, but if she should decide to do so because, for example, her life or her spirituality is being endangered by her husband, or he refuses to provide financially for his family, then she would not be in servitude under such circumstances, for all Christians have been called to marital, domestic and family peace by God.

  So what does this mean then for the Christian husband whose wife has departed? It doesn't mean that he is now free to behave as if he not married. No, but the Christian husband must live as if he were unmarried, that is to say, his change of circumstance as a married man does not permit him to act indecently toward his wife or to stop providing financially for his family. Of course, one's own emotional needs and desire for companionship will need to be given consideration. One's sexual impulses may intrude upon one's thoughts and actions, and have caused some to seek platonic companionship with someone of the opposite sex while separated from their spouse, and these sexual impulses can end up leading to adulterous unions and disfellowshipping from the Christian congregation. Perhaps in time the married couple will "come together again" and resume living together again, but while they may for a time be living as single persons, the two should never forget the other marital obligations they owe to one another as a married couple. (1 Corinthians 7:5, 11)

  If a separation or even a divorce should occur, the full-time ministry can prove to be a refuge from feeling of guilt over things that you know that you were not able to control. Some married couples must deal with issues of which they were totally unaware before they decided to marry; for example, a wife may have had her heart set on having children, only to learn that she will be childless in this marriage due to some medical issue of her husband's. A wife may discover than sexual relations are difficult for her or may not be enjoyable due to his inability to satisfy her sexual needs or his unwillingness to do so, or for some medical reason that became apparent after the marriage day.

  A sexless marriage need not be a loveless one, as there is plenty that one can do in the work of the Lord to keep one's mind from dwelling on feelings of loneliness or one's desire for sexual fulfillment. Procuring porn or seeking romantic companionship with someone other than one's spouse may seem like a good idea at the time, but such can adversely impact the marriage and one's spirituality. The Christian ministry can provide a beneficial outlet if one should be considering such things. (1 Corinthians 15:58)

  But if one should separate emotionally from one's marriage mate or separate physically to dwell elsewhere as if he or she is unmarried, one's marital responsibilities toward one's mate -- to love and provide financial, spiritual and emotional support -- is all a part of the marital due, part of a husbands "loving their wives as their own bodies." (1 Corinthians 7:3; Ephesians 5:28)

  Marriage may be a cause of joy and it may also prove to be a cause for anxiety as well as a trial, and such trials could lead to much "tribulation in the flesh." (1 Corinthians 7:28) Because the dynamic in one marriage will not be exactly the same as the dynamic in some other marriage, it is important that one not be comparing their marriage with what one perceives to be the ideal in someone else's marriage. (See 2 Corinthians 10:12) But by doing things to take our minds off our own problems, maybe focusing our attention on Bible study and on the Christian ministry, in time things could improve in our marriage, which may also allow time for any needed medical-related healing or other circumstance to be completed.

  Oh well........its all Bible Ala Carte.....choose what we want, ignore what we don't. In my opinion, the JW's biggest sin by far....

  I don't know what you mean by this. Those who are Jehovah's Witnesses in name only are not unlike those that are Christians in name only; they are really not Jehovah's Witnesses at all, not true Christians, and if Christians know "how to do what is right and yet does not do it," this would be a sin for them.

  @djeggnog
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  Scott77

  :Marital Due and the KS This whole notion of a "marital due" always bothered me. "Woman! Get in the bedroom. Now! It's time to pay your dues!" Is marriage a loving arrangement between two people who commit to stand by each other for life, or an arrangement like a private club which DEMANDS a payment of regular dues from its members? See what I mean?
  Farkel

  Very interesting observation. This certainly gives me serious food for thought. Is marriage really all that important? How about alternatives?

  Scott77
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  Scott77

  According to Caesar's Laws, there is a principle whereby the punishment should fit the crime. There's no such principle in a JW kangaroo court. You are either Marked™, Reproved™, Disfellowshipped™ or Disassociated™. All three pronouncements (Marking™ is the exception because they don't announce people as being Marked™) are dealt with in the same manner. The individual is treated like $h!t, gossipped about and viewed with suspicion, even if the outcome of the hearing is inconclusive and no decision is reached, the person can be 'convicted by gossip mill' - I've seen it happen. I've been the subject of the JW gossip mill and know the way it can destroy your life.

  Scully

  Very true. I experienced it, live it, suffered from it. The gossip even went further to my work place where there were two JWs. I was so much hurt even to this day. OMG! a time of reckning may come and for those JWs to answer for their injustices.

  Scott77
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  Scott77

  "I think maybe therapy might be a good way for couples to talk about issues like this if they can't be open with each other. But I don't think the elders are equipped to help with that, nor do I think they should be entitled to information about someone's medical information. If they won't inform people in the congregation about child molesters, then it serves no purpose for them to know any other sensitive information, since it's never about protecting the flock." sd-7

  Very true. Confidentiality is important but rarely do elder keep it. Medical information are protected by federal law. I think some here in US are aware of HIPAA.

  Scott77