He's almighty and everything belongs to Him, but he needs our money!
When God breaks his own laws
by Nickolas 111 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Nickolas
God is NOT subject to the laws of science that we have in our universe, since he is "oustide" those very laws.
Of course those "Laws" in of themselves were "created" by Man and there is no reason to believe that they can't be "suspended".
Just because ancient man thought they saw something, doesn't mean THAT something was WHAT they saw.
The point, I suppose, is that there are mechanisms that govern the behaviour of matter in the physical universe. These mechanisms were not created by mankind, rather ostensibly by God, but mankind attempts to understand them with the intelligence it has, ostensibly provided by God. Drive a speeding car into a wall and it suddenly stops and the laws of physics take over. Big mess. If the earth suddenly stopped rotating it would set up a chain reaction of catastrophic events that would destroy the planet and alter the solar system clockwork. To assume that God could simply suspend those mechanisms at will argues that they're not really required at all, so why did He bother to set them up in the first place? And how does He accomplish the suspension of these mechanisms anyway? Magic? In the present context, wouldn't it have been a whole lot easier just to give Joshua and his troops night vision so they could smote those pesky Amorites in the dark? If God wanted to make sure it was a fair fight, He could have given the Amorites night vision, too. Much simpler solution.
I do, however, agree entirely with your last statement. I have no doubt it applies to ancient man seeing burning bushes, talking snakes, parting waters, raining frogs, walking dead, multiplying fishes and loaves, etc. etc.
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PSacramento
I do, however, agree entirely with your last statement. I have no doubt it applies to ancient man seeing burning bushes, talking snakes, parting waters, raining frogs, walking dead, multiplying fishes and loaves, etc. etc.
Context, somethings were written as stories and analogies, sometimes they storytelling got colourful, sometimes the colour was add for more effect,but other times they were recorded incidents of events that actually happened ( possibly).
Thing is that God is NOT "constrained" by the "laws" of nature that have never applied to him and that MAY ( in the future) not even apply to us.
Remember, no law is "set in stone", we may drop a stone one billion times and it always falls but what happens if of one of those tries, it doesn't?
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Nickolas
Thing is that God is NOT "constrained" by the "laws" of nature that have never applied to him and that MAY ( in the future) not even apply to us.
Can you tell me how you know this thing you assert with such absolute certainty?
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PSacramento
Can you tell me how you know this thing you assert with such absolute certainty?
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you ;)
Seriously now, which part? and while I may "sound" like I have "absolute certainty" what I really have is faith.
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Nickolas
That's where I stumble. There are those whose faith is absolute to the extent that they will do incomprehensible things (like pilot 767s into skyscrapers, for example) but that doesn't mean what they believe with all their hearts is true. Faith and truth are mutually exclusive and that is why I depend entirely on evidence to shape my perception of reality.
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PSacramento
My faith is based on reason, I try to base it as much on reason as possible.
I believe that faith and reason must co-exist if faith is to be a "healthy faith".
Faith that drives people to kill or to do harm is NOT faith based on reason, to be honest I don't know what it is based on.
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Nickolas
Actually, those who commit atrocities because of their faith believe it is entirely reasonable to do so.
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PSacramento
Indeed, the likes of Stalin, Mao, Pot and so many others probably felt the same way too.
Amazing how that is eh?
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Nickolas
Yes, we've had this conversation before, PSacramento. But we need not confine ourselves to horrific atrocities for examples of faith driven certitude. Muslims are absolutely convinced that God is preoccupied with women's clothing, the faith of hasidic jews compels them to have their infant sons circumsized by moyles who in the process suck the severed foreskins off and then spit them out, the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses compells them to carry what has been ungraciously termed as suicide cards in their wallets, Amish farmers will install electricity in their barns for the benefit of the livestock but won't have it in their homes, Hindus worship cows, fundamentalist Christians are just a-waitin' to be swept up in the Rapture and the Scientologists ... well, you get the picture. All operate on the premise that what they think and do is reasonable.