When God breaks his own laws (page 6)

SweetBabyCheezits

I once read that if a human mind can conceive of something then that means that God can do it.

Psac, what if I conceive that God can lie?

PSacramento

Psac, what if I conceive that God can lie?

Can you conceive why God would? I mean, why would an Omnipotent being lie about anything at all?

StoneWall

QuitWastingTIME said:

I don't agree with WT methodology, but if every single human on the planet were a Witness, I am forced to admit that I would feel safer and my outlook on life would be more positive.

That is kind of a moot point because the same thing could be said about various other groups as well. Take the Amish for instance. The ones I've read about and heard about don't believe in going to war, are hard working peaceful people,help each other with barn raisings etc. Also unlike witnesses, they don't drive cars(as well as other things) so the point could be made that they produce less pollution for the enviroment.

So in the same sense that you are referring to feeling safer if everyone was a J.W., I'd have to say there are many others out there that I would feel just as safe if not safer around if the entire world was like them.

THE GLADIATOR

So true StoneWall. I would feel a lot safer if there were more gladiators around.

StoneWall

But getting back on topic, when I first saw the thread title I thought it was referring to written/oral laws.

Now I know its dealing with physical/scientific laws being broken according to opening post.

So I'll go with the manna from heaven.

Imagine how many laws of the known universe would have to be broken in order for that to take place.

For bread from heaven to fall from the sky, when normally it's only precipitation of some form(whether it be rain,sleet,snow etc.)

Nickolas

Now I know its dealing with physical/scientific laws being broken according to opening post.

Are we back on track? The conversation has been fascinating, regardless.

SweetBabyCheezits

Can you conceive why God would? I mean, why would an Omnipotent being lie about anything at all?

No, you're right. That's just silly. I mean, we can state (with no disclaimers) that if man can think of it, God can do it. But if we conceive something perplexing, well, then I need to justify WHY he would ever want to do that.

People who are better educated than I would call this reductio ad absurdum.

Nickolas

No, you're right. That's just silly. I mean, we can state (with no disclaimers) that if man can think of it, God can do it. But if we conceive something perplexing, well, then I need to justify WHY he would ever want to do that.

But only to oneself, SBC, since God is unknowable and ostensibly requires no justification for anything he does or does not do. Above all he is omnipresent and omnipotent, infinitely knowing and infinitely powerful by definition, so he can do absolutely anything without qualification. He can make black white and white black if he wants to and his lie could be truth if he wants it to be. He can defy all his laws at will with complete impunity, whether they be the physcial laws of the universe he created or the laws he bestowed upon mankind. He is by all logical accounts a complete contradiction and staunch defence of a belief in his existence is the ultimate example of reductive reasoning taken to the absurd.

The initial intent of this thread was to illustrate an example of biblical fallacy. The original author of Joshua 10:13 believed the earth was the center of the universe and that is why he wrote the account as he did. If, as an earlier poster to this thread maintained, the WTBTS's interpretation of Joshua 10:13 is that God only made it appear that the sun stood still in the sky, then that is a transparent and anaemic rationalisation of an obvious fallacy which casts into doubt the notion that the literal word of the bible is inspired by God and represents absolute truth. The only completely rational explanation for Joshua 10:13 is it never happened.

SweetBabyCheezits

Can you conceive why God would? I mean, why would an Omnipotent being lie about anything at all?

Okay, I'll humor you if you humor me, PSac. Suppose he would lie about being perfect because he isn't. So if he was imperfect, he could lie and make up all kinds of crazy stuff, perhaps a whole book of it. And how would we know otherwise? That's my own little reductio ad absurdum.

If that sounds illogical to you, I totally agree. But please tell me how that line of reasoning would be any less logical than a god being perfect and omni-everything, yet still needing praise and worship. An omnipotent god killing children and condoning rape and committing genocide?

Occam's Razor should be applied here.

You're not obligated to answer the question I posed earlier but I'd really like to hear what a devout Christian has to say. I should probably create a new thread since it's off topic.

Is there any way he [a Muslim] might be able to identify the flaws in his reasoning (without, say, any significant knowledge of the bible or Christiantity)?

Terry

I don't know about the one where the sun stood still... but Jesus walked on water. Jesus commanded a storm to stop. Healed illness, cured blindness and deafness. Physically rose from the dead.

Truthfully, I don't think it is a matter of God breaking the physical laws that he created, but rather a matter of us not understanding the full nature of those laws that he created.

Have you ever noticed how "low-tech" miracles are in the Bible?

Noah should have been able to snap his fingers and all the wicked drop dead.

But, no---it had to rain and rain and rain and create collateral damage which required the death of countless animals.

And Jesus walking on water....? Why not soar 6 inches above the water?

Nobody can fly in the bible. Angels climb up and down from heaven on a frickin' ladder!

Commanding a storm to stop has a lot to do with timing....doesn't it:)

Making the sun stand still is rather obtuse. How about enemies that glow in the dark making it easier to kill them:)

Sigh. Jehovah needed a better sense of humor, methinks!

When God breaks his own laws

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