I Am Curious, So A Couple/Few Questions, If I May...

by AGuest 58 Replies latest jw friends

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  believingxjw

  SA,

  As I said in my post above not all, in that particular congregation, who audibly hear the voice also shake. Perhaps you could comment on these as well. My cousin attended such a congregation, the voice of Christ heard by all audibly. Signs were also present as were other phenomenon. This is what the Christians attending that congregation wanted and apparently needed. I seems that Jesus accommodated them.

  Other Christians are content to follow Jesus by attempting to do as he taught in the Gospels. They do not seek more than that, maybe they don't need it. Don't know. Christians can follow Jesus without hearing an audible voice! It is done everyday.
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  AGuest

  My cousin attended such a congregation, the voice of Christ heard by all audibly. Signs were also present as were other phenomenon. This is what the Christians attending that congregation wanted and apparently needed. I seems that Jesus accommodated them.

  Forgive me, I do not intend to offend, so I hope you take no offense, BUT... seeing as my Lord even told his disciples that they would receive NO sign... except the sign of Jonah (i.e., him being in the grave 3 days)... and the outpouring of holy spirit and operation of its gifts as "evidence" of his kingship... I would not jump to put my faith in what [my] cousin told me about this. I would, however, to go my Lord and ask him if it were true... or not... and put faith in what HE told me. Which I did... and why I have responded as I did, above.

  What you cousin related, however, apparently IS what that congregation wanted, indeed, maybe even needed. I just think they... and you... should have better investigated the "source" that "accommodated" them.

  Other Christians are content to follow Jesus by attempting to do as he taught in the Gospels. They do not seek more than that, maybe they don't need it. Don't know.

  That one follows the teachings of Christ as set forth in the writings, dear one, does not make them a christian; it merely makes them a disciple. A christian is one who has been chosen... by means of an anointing with holy spirit. And if one has received such anointing... the HOLY SPIRT teaches them... by means OF such anointing.

  It is the same premise as being a "Jew". True, one can be called a Jew because (1) they are literally from the tribes of Judah or Benjamin; or (2) they attached themselves to and adhere to the "laws" of the Jews. However, just because one CALLS oneself a Jew does not MAKE one a Jew. He is not a Jew who is one on the outside, dear one; he is a Jew, who is one on the INSIDE. It is the same with the anointing: unless God and Christ have chosen that one... and literally come and made their abode (dwelling) IN that one... one is not a "christian." Because being a "christian"... is something that occurs... with regard to the INSIDE. (John 14:23; Romans 8:9, 10)

  Christians can follow Jesus without hearing an audible voice! It is done everyday

  I must disagree, dear one. A person can follow the teachings of Christ, yes, as such is set down in writing. However, that is not following Christ:

  “Most truly I say to YOU , He that does not enter into the sheepfold through the door but climbs up some other place, that one is a thief and a plunderer. But he that enters through the door is shepherd of the sheep. The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has got all his own out, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice. A stranger they will by no means follow but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.” [Jesus] spoke this comparison to them; but they did not know what the things meant that he was speaking to them.

  Therefore [Jesus] said again: “Most truly I say to YOU , I am the door of the sheep. All those that have come in place of me are thieves and plunderers; but the sheep have not listened to them. I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and he will go in and out and find pasturage. The thief does not come unless it is to steal and slay and destroy. I have come that they might have life and might have it in abundance.I am the fine shepherd; the fine shepherd surrenders his soul in behalf of the sheep. The hired man, who is no shepherd and to whom the sheep do not belong as his own, beholds the wolf coming and abandons the sheep and flees—and the wolf snatches them and scatters them— because he is a hired man and does not care for the sheep. I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep and my sheep know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my soul in behalf of the sheep.

  “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.

  "My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."

  I am sorry, dear BXJW... but like so many others, you are being misled. But it doesn't have to be that way, truly. You COULD be of those with ears who HEAR the Spirit and the Bride, who say "COME!" As a free moral agent, the choice really is yours. If you are truly wishing and thirsting... why not just go to the original Source... and drink? Why drink downstream... where the "water" has picked up all manner of debris and pollutants... or even been stripped clean of vital minerals and nutrients? Why not just go to HIM?

  And now, dear one, if you will indulge me, I have answered your questions to me. Is it possible I can ask you to kindly respond to the questions I asked you in my previous post? Thank you, and again...

  Peace to you!

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
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  believingxjw

  I appreciate your reply, SA. First, let me say that my cousin is my cousin not me. I do not attend his congregation nor do I agree with everything taught there. It was merely an example of what many Christians experience. If some Christians are only disciples and only those who hear an audible voice are Christians then does not make for a two tier Christianity much like the Witnesses?

  I apologize for not answering the question, is it possible for you to restate it please? My time here is difficult and limited.
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  PSacramento

  Paul was the last apostle, if by apostle one means a person that saw the risen Christ AND receive the spirit from Him.

  The works of the HS continue to this day, helping as and directing us and never leaving us, as Christ promised us in John.

  There are many reason why we do not hear, as Tammy mentioned fear is a great one, in my case I can honestly say it was and still is, pride.
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  palmtree67

  I agree with Tammy, the "source" is the helper promised to us. I think the helper helps us by motivating certain ones to express themselves, and I think those ways of expressing that help are various.

  I think the purpose of the gifts are to draw humans to the Divine, and to show us the divinity in each of us.

  It's hard to put into words, (for me, not so much for Shelby **smiles **) becuse it's not like other sciences.
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  Inkie

  BXJW: You wrote:

  It was merely an example of what many Christians experience. If some Christians are only disciples and only those who hear an audible voice are Christians then does not make for a two tier Christianity much like the Witnesses?

  Actually, if truth be told, it is an 'example of what many [claiming to be] Christian experience.' Not necessarily that they are Christian. As AGuest said, ONLY persons who have received an anointing ARE Christians. Plain and simple. People who claim to be Chrisitans but WHO HAVE NOT RECEIVED AN ANOINTING are ONLY disciples. However, many people HEAR VOICES. It is our duty to check the "inspired expression" that is heard to make sure that it comes from God or Christ. That instruction is even contained in the Bible.

  A Christian is one who BOTH hears his Lord and one who has received an anointing from him, but it is the anointing that makes one a Christian in the true meaning of the word.

  --Inkie
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  believingxjw

  Inkie,

  SA wrote,

  "I must disagree, dear one. A person can follow the teachings of Christ, yes, as such is set down in writing. However, that is not following Christ:

  “Most truly I say to YOU , He that does not enter into the sheepfold through the door but climbs up some other place, that one is a thief and a plunderer. But he that enters through the door is shepherd of the sheep. The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has got all his own out, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice. A stranger they will by no means follow but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.” [Jesus] spoke this comparison to them; but they did not know what the things meant that he was speaking to them."

  (end quote)

  It seems that SA is equating being a Christian (as opposed to a being only a disciple) with hearing the audible voice of Christ. Or did I misunderstand her post?
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  Inkie

  BXJW:

  No doubt SA will respond on her own.

  Nonetheless, she is quoting what our Lord said about his sheep. His sheep listen to his voice. So they HEAR him. According to the biblical text, he "calls" his sheep OUT from the pen. His sheep respond and come out. (The others, who are not his sheep, are not called out and stay in the pen.) Those sheep who respond to the call are chosen and receive an anointing. And in the receiving of that anointing are made Christians. So, a Christian is definitely one who HAS RECEIVED AN ANOINTING--totally and absolutely. A Christian ALSO hears his Lord. There is no two-tier Christianity involved.

  Just because one calls himself a Christian does not make it so. The word "Christain" is defined as an "Anointed Person." Obviously, if you haven't been anointed with holy spirit you cannot be a Christian (anointed person) plain and simple.

  In the Society's publications "they" often use the phrase "anointed Christian." That is SO redundant because they are in fact saying "anointed anointed person." Why doesn't it surprise me?

  --Inkie
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  believingxjw

  Thanks Inkie, I don't believe being of the anointed automatically means one hears an audible voice. Do you hear an audible voice? If so, do you mind sharing your experience of what that voice sounds like? It is a deep male voice? Do you hear it during the day and night or only at certain times? What does it say to you?

  You don't have to answer, just like the title of this thread, I'm curious.
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  Inkie

  You are correct, BXJW, it doesn't mean that and it is NOT an audible voice. It is not a voice that one hears with one's physical ears. If it were audible in that way, then everyone (even unbelievers and enemies of God and Christ) would hear it, wouldn't they? Remember, Christ said: "I am with YOU (his anointed) all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." He also said: "I will not leave you bereft." It is a voice that one hears with one's "spiritual" ears--on the "inside" of one's self.

  When I first began "to hear," it sounded like my own voice speaking to me. I decided to test it (as the biblical text admonishes us to do) and I put my little faith in what I heard it say. No, it is not a "deep" male voice so to speak, although it does sound male to me. It's a pleasant voice, soft-spoken, gentle and kind, caring. I hear it day and night, but not constantly. When I turn my attention to Him, he is immediately there for me--immediately--and he acknowledges his presence to me each and every time. And he does speak to me. Other times, when I least expect it, he warns me of something or he admonishes me regarding things. One time, a long time ago, I remember distinctly, when I was tempted to do something I should not do, his voice came to me and was loud and clear so that I might not be mistaken as to who it was that was speaking to me. It was a warning for me not to do this thing (for my own benefit), but it was not a command. It was unmistakeable (to me). It was not a "Thou shalt not" type of voice. It was a strong warning, and it was loud, but it was a caring voice that spoke to me. I have trusted the voice ever since. And I didn't do the tempting deed. Thank God!

  --Inkie