Interesting call from an elder this morning (page 3)

wannabefree

I am most certainly on your side, I agree it is nice to hear about the elder's response, I would question his motive simply because in the long run he will do the will of the corporation.

I am not threatening my OWN congregation

Yes you are. Your OWN congregation is the entire brotherhood of Jehovah's Wintesses. Actually, to be technical, the worldwide association of ANOINTED Witnesses. No member of the great crowd is technically a member of the congregation. You might have been associated with a certain Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses, but if you didn't profess to be anointed, you weren't technically a member of the congregation. You were an alien resident that grabbed a hold of the skirt of a Jew and said "I will go with you people".

sabastious

But once you come to the full realization that you've been used, abused, lied to and decieved, you finally realize that lying to representatives of the cult isn't all that dishonest.

I understand what you are saying Undercover, but I still feel it's dishonest. Do I care about lying to them? No at all, but I do care about lying, for myself.

-Sab

sabastious

I would question his motive simply because in the long run he will do the will of the corporation.

You have every right to feel cautious, as I should as well. This is a slippery slope.

-Sab

sabastious

Yes you are. Your OWN congregation is the entire brotherhood of Jehovah's Wintesses. Actually, to be technical, the worldwide association of ANOINTED Witnesses.

It depends on how grandiose the Elder wants to be. He could pull this technicality, but what would it prove?

I feel that this elder doesn't have near the ego that a lot do.

-Sab

Elder-Patrol

An elder who conscientiously adheres to what has traditionally been accepted as common law has nothing to fear from a lawsuit except maybe some missed workdays. Everything about judicial committees (which, incidentally, are not unique to JWs) has been litigated to death, and upheld by courts in the USA.

Elders have little interest in pursuing an inactive JW who isn't associating with the religion. It seems clear that the elder who contacted "sabastious" expected to be able to dismiss the allegations against him. Otherwise, the elder would have called with another elder conferenced in. Sabastious need only have said that he didn't wish to discuss the matter; he didn't do that and so it seems likely the elders will now feel compelled to consider whether his statements have already disassociated him or if they qualify as "apostasy".

The "group therapy" argument is mildly interesting, except that this forum is not actual group therapy and anyway group therapy is not an accepted form of privileged communication (such as one enjoys with one's spouse, lawyer, doctor, and bonafide spiritual confessor). One "out" is that the elder(s) may choose to believe that outrageous things said in perceived anonymity may not fully reflect what the person believes. Another is that the elder(s) may choose to believe "mob mentality" took hold and statements made here are not indicative of actual convictions.

sabastious

Elder-Patrol, threatening lawsuit is a bluff. At least that's the way I would use it if I felt compelled to.

-Sab

undercover

He knew sabatious was me. The setup was the question itself, IMO.

How does he know? Someone told him? Does he have proof? IP addresses? Simon confirm it? Two witnesses?

Deny deny deny. If they can't prove it and you don't confess, they ain't got shit and they can't do shit. Even if your family "knows" it's you, they can't prove it to the elders and you don't have to confess. But it's a moot point now. You've done confessed. And don't forget that even if you're thinking that you're talking to one elder on the phone, another might be listening in...giving them two witnesses.

The problem is sometimes we tend to not look at this straight on. We want to be good and honest. We want them to be good and honest. But when they call into question someone's loyalty to the organization, they'll stoop pretty low to expose an opposer - in this case, you. It's basically a political war. You have to know their rules better'n them and you have to play your cards just right...using their own rules against them.

Maybe I'm too cynical, I don't know... but better to be too cynical than too naive

sabastious

undercover, your advice has merrit, but you just don't know my story well enough I think. (maybe because I have not posted it lol).

I am at peace with my decision to leave. A line was drawn in the sand by some members of my family and sides were taken. It had been a theme in my life to hide from things, to escape responsibility. I made a pact to myself that I would accept responsibility for the things I do, and if that means it goes against the rules of the Watchtower and I get DF'ed then that is what will happen.

I'm not holding on a stubburn position by refusing to lie, I am holding onto my values which what I have discovered is the ONLY thing that I truly have, my integrity.

So far being truthful and honest about my path has been pretty encouraging. Every elder I have spoken to about this journey has had compassion for me, maybe one day that compassion will run thin, but that's not the point.

I will not play a game because I already won.

-Sab

sabastious

How does he know? Someone told him? Does he have proof? IP addresses? Simon confirm it? Two witnesses?

My family has confirmed it. They put together the packet of information (my posts here) which includes personal details that they can confirm that I could be the only one with those details.

Cat's outta the bag, so I am just goona role with it.

-Sab

GrandmaJones

It is terrible that your family is putting pressure on the elders to have this handled with a possible JC and a subsequent charge of apostacy. I am sure they love you, but it is such an awful thing for you to go through. This organization is indeed terrible to pit family members against one another. Is this the fruitage of love?

The organization (and your family, who apparently don't know what they are creating) should be ashamed.

I feel so badly for you.

Interesting call from an elder this morning

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