In Einstein's "Out of My Later Years", he asks the question, "What is a Jew"? and proceeds to answer it from a mostly humanistic standpoint - as someone who prizes intellectualism, culture, and humanitarian interests. In that respect, I'm as "Jewish" as anybody here even though I haven't completely written off the man Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah.
Former Jehovah's Witnesses..... becomes a Jewish Rabbi !
by koolaid-man 48 Replies latest jw friends
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agonus
I'd wager the good Professor would say that the man Jesus had a very Jewish worldview indeed.
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Nickolas
I would have to agree that Jesus had a Jewish worldview.
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The_Present_Truth
Didn't the Jews end up demonstrating that they had a major difference of opinion regarding Jesus "worldview" vs. theirs? I think the title "Messianic" Jew is where the significant difference comes in. The jews did not and do not feel that Jesus was the Messiah. Correct?
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Satanus
Jews turn on their messiahs.
S
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designs
InJudaism you find an evolving view of a Messiah or Redeemer figure. The primitive Messiah could be a God elected human who would bring peace and justice to all of humankind and establish the Kingdom of God on earth. The later eschatological Messiah who appears at the Day of Judgement shows changing attitudes. One requirement stayed the same over this period- believe in the One God and the Torah. After Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Syria, and Rome rolled through the land Jewish ideas of what a Messiah should be and do changed. In the Apocalypse of Baruch the Sage, 70BCE, talks about the destruction of Rome. Also written in that period, 100BCE, the books of Daniel and Enoch, take up the same themes of liberation but they are generous to their enemies. If they convert they can enjoy the Paradise earth. This later Messiah was called Maschiach ben Yosef, the earlier Messiah was called Mashiach ben David. Maschiach ben Yosef is very much like the Persian Redeemer who settles the balance of good and evil known as Ormuzd and Ahriman.
One condition for a Messiah to appear was the collective call to God for help with human affliction. This occured at the height of Roman oppression. Jewish Sage Joshua ben levi wrote about a dream in which he meets Elijah and asks why the Messiah has not come to free humanity and elijah says it will come on the 'Day' when humans listen to His Voice'. This led to the Talmudic story of the Messiah as a Leper. Someone so pitiable that God would have to help.
Two seperate views emerge about National Repentence- The Talmud says it is not a requirement, God will step in at the providential low point and help out. In Cabalistic writings the National Redemption of all Jews is a requirement and they have the ritual of Tishah B'Ab or Destruction of the Temple and recite prayers and lamentations to expiate the sins of the nation.
To the Orthodox the Messiah is real and will come someday to liberate all of humanity. The Conservative and Reform see the Messiah as a symbol of Reform and hope for peace and justice in this world.
Here is the prayer from the Thirteen Articles of Faith formulated by Maimonides- 'I believe Ani Ma'amin with complete faith that the Messiah will come, and although he may tarry, yet each day I will wait for his coming'. These words were put into a hymn called the 'Ani Ma'amin' and sung by many of the six million Jews who perished under the Nazis. They sang the song in Triumph and as an Affirmation of Faith. Ani Ma'amin has been added to the Passover Seder Service.
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moshe
Messianic Jews? Go to Israel and ask the messianic Jews there, if the rest of Israel accepts them as Jewish- NO! . It seems to be a sneaky way for Jews to become Christians, while trying to maintain their Jewish identity with the community. The divinity of Jesus, forgiveness of sins through Jesus shed blood, triune gods, original sin- none of that plays out for Jews.
In my Temple, (and in most conversions, I believe) my conversion required a public declaration in Temple, of my acceptance of the Abrahamic covenant and and admission, in essence that Jesus is dead, he was just a man, he was no messiah and he is not coming back again.
Since Jews count their Jewish pedigree through the mother, having a Jewish relative on the father's side only, will not be acceptable proof of being Jewish in the majority of Temples. This was the case for Craig, so he would have been required to go through a full conversion process like I did, in order to be considered Jewish, by the Rabbis. This may all seem hard to understand, but it is all very plain to Jews.
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The_Present_Truth
Moshe,
Is it a requirement for conversion to Judaism that you have a lineage of Jewish blood?
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myelaine
dear moshe...
you said: "In my Temple, (and in most conversions, I believe) my conversion required a public declaration in Temple, of my acceptance of the Abrahamic covenant and and admission, in essence that Jesus is dead, he was just a man, he was no messiah and he is not coming back again."...
did you have to publicly "recant" Jesus because of your previous affiliation?...I'm surprised that you actually had to mention Jesus at allin stating that Jesus was just a man and no messiah and is not coming back...is it the rabbi's "call" that He wouldn't even be resurrected? and if not why not?
love michelle
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AGuest
A Jew is many things (may you all have peace!).
Physically/naturally, a Jew is someone descending from the bloodline of Judah (and Benjamin, which tribe was absorbed by Judah after almost being annihilated), sons of Israel by his wife, Rachel. These are Jews... by blood. Since Jews make up only two tribes of Israel (called "Judah"), not all who descend from Israel are Jews; some are "Samaritans" (the other 10 tribes, called "Israel"). Indeed, not all who ascend from Abraham are Israel, and thus Jews. Abraham had other children: a son, Ishmael, by Hagar (from which the nation of Islam derives)... 6 sons by Keturah: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah... and an unnumbered amount of sons from other concubines (the magi are descended from these).
Culturally/religiously, a Jew is someone who adopts/adheres to the Jewish cultural and religious system, including circumcision, although not necessary born a Jew. Thus, they may or may not be a Jew by blood but are such by vow.
Spiritually...a Jew is someone who, although not necessarily having Abraham's blood in them (thus, making them not a natural/physical Jew on the OUTSIDE), they may have the law that was meant for Israel, and most particularly the Jews... written on their hearts. Constituting them a Jew on the INSIDE.
I hope this helps and wish you all peace!
A slave of Christ, the Jew the fringe of whose skirt many will grab hold to... and be led into all truth,
SA