"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas 202 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

OnTheWayOut

Taking some eastern thought and my own, the truth or enlightenment is within everyone's grasp with what they already have.
We know that we exist and think. It is possible that our existence and thinking is not what we feel it is because we are deceived in some way, but we know as much that we exist and think. If we did not exist and think, then little else matters. We become better people if we clear up our own deceptions or outside deceptions of what we are and want to be better people.
Your opening post describes "absolute" physical truths and not subjective or philosophical truths.
On a higher level, physical evidence is quite clear that animals have existed in some form for millions of years and any teachings that tell us otherwise are a crock. Evidence exists that life evolved and any teachings that tell us otherwise are a crock. Physical evidence exists that humans continue to procreate through a sexual act (or a turkey-baster type of action to substitute) and any teaching that tells us anything else demands proof that has not come about. This does not touch of spiritual existence, but we have no proof that any kind of existence without physical existence is possible.
Claims by others of divine intervention or communication with spiritual beings demand evidences. If such evidences are not provided, then such claims can be dismissed. If any such divine powers or spiritual beings really do exist and want you or me to know about them, it is their responsibility to contact you or me. There really is no acceptable excuse such as "They call but you don't know how to listen" because that means the divine power really doesn't want you or me to know about them (or doesn't have the ability to contact us) and we are free to continue dismissing claims of their existence. If that rates us as deserving of everlasting torment or any sort of punishment, then who the hell wants to worship such a shitty divine power anyway that cannot or does not make itself known?
Vanderhoven7

<<Taking some eastern thought and my own, the truth or enlightenment is within everyone's grasp with what they already have.>>
Thanks for sharing your personal philosophy OnTheWayOut.
It's kind of nice to take your thoughts and Buddha's thoughts (just my euphemism for eastern religious views) etc. to live by. Jesus requirements however are significantly more demanding. He says things like:
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
He adds further hard sayings like:
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Jesus Christ claims to be the Way, the Truth and The Life. Why take your thoughts and Buddah's over Christ's?
Vander
AGuest

knowing all that there is to know is not possible.
Not now, yes, dear Nickolas (peace to you!), but I believe that it's premature for us to say such a thing. At one time, there was the belief that we couldn't know if the earth was round vs. flat. Or what the moon really IS made of.
But what remains within our purview is recognising and ultimately knowing what is not possible.
As to some things, yes. For example, I KNOW that it is NOT POSSIBLE for a dog to evolve into a cow. Ain't gonna happen. But I cannot say that that dog won't evolve into some other kind of canine... or the cow into another species of bovine. But canine to bovine? Seriously...
If someone tells us that something is possible, believes it with all his/her heart and soul as a matter of fact, but cannot furnish even the tiniest, most miniscule fragment of real proof, then we can only be left with the understanding that it is in all probability not the truth.
I would agree. Operative words here, though, are "tiniest"... and "real proof." In recent years an experiment resulted in scientists forming "something" out of "nothing." Yet, you ask some prior to and they would have said that such a thing absolutely could NOT be done. Unlike scientists, who say it isn't until it "is"... and dogmatic religionists who say it isn't, regardless... I have learned to keep my options... and hope... open. Because if you had told ME 15 years or so ago that Christ would speak to me and I would literally hear him, I would have told YOU... that you were... well, delusional. NOTHING is real... until it happens to someone. Problem is, we believe it has to be MANY someones. It really doesn't.
I hope this helps, and again I bid you peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA
AGuest

If any such divine powers or spiritual beings really do exist and want you or me to know about them, it is their responsibility to contact you or me.
And herein lies the rub: if they want YOU to know. And it doesn't set very well with many that perhaps the TRUTH is that such powers or beings DON'T want them to know. But that isn't false at all. Rather, it was stated, so there really is NO excuse (at least, not for those who, for YEARS, claimed to know what was "in the Bible" so that they felt NO problem with raising themselves up over... calling themselves teaching... and even judging... others):
“To YOU it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, but to those people it is not granted. For whoever has, more will be given him and he will be made to abound; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations, because, looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it; and toward them the prophecy of Isaiah is having fulfillment, which says, ‘By hearing, YOU will hear but by no means get the sense of it; and, looking, YOU will look but by no means see. For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes; that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back, and I heal them.’ "
What does this mean? It means that if one didn't get it when one DID see it with ones physical eyes (and many during my Lord's day in the flesh call into this category)... or heard it with ones physical ears (and many fall into this category since then)... which is just as good (hearing as seeing, if not, then what hope for the blind who can hear but not see, or the deaf who can see but not hear?)... one certainly won't get it with one's spiritual senses. Why? Because one is not only hard-headed but hard-hearted... and stiff-necked. Why should anyone... and particularly a divine power... MAKE one do something one does not WANT to do? Wouldn't man cry out "foul" in that event, as well?
Ah, the little children in the marketplace...
There really is no acceptable excuse such as "They call but you don't know how to listen"
Excuse, no. Valid, accurate, truthful, and appropriate explanation? Sure, there is. That very thing occurs with those in the flesh. They're called... hard-headed. Certainly, then, it occurs with those as to the spirit. They are called hard-headed... and hard-hearted.
because that means the divine power really doesn't want you or me to know about them (or doesn't have the ability to contact us) and we are free to continue dismissing claims of their existence.
Ah, yes, yet another "challenge." It won't occur for you this way, however. You can stand and yell and huff and puff and sling accusations and hurl challenges all the good day long. Won't happen. Believe me, the Most Holy One of Israel is WAY more patient than you can ever imagine. Unlike man, He is SLOW to anger. So, your bullying mean nothing to Him. It might work on a less in control being... someone like yourself, perhaps. But this kind of thing has absolutely NO effect on Him. No more than it would on me, I am certainly not as long-suffering as He is. Not by ANY stretch.
He has told you how to approach Him... how to hear Him... how to see Him. YOU refuse to acknowledge, let alone use, that Channel. So, get what you give: nothing.
If that rates us as deserving of everlasting torment or any sort of punishment, then who the hell wants to worship such a shitty divine power anyway that cannot or does not make itself known?
At one time, you did. For quite some time, too. At one time the fact that the Most Holy One of Israel "didn't" speak to you or show Himself to you... wasn't even a problem. Indeed, you not only believed... but TAUGHT others... that He didn't speak... COULDN'T speak. You may have even sat in judgment and spiritually "killed" some who said otherwise. If you didn't... you would have, just to keep your "position." Just in "obedience" to those who misled YOU. Now, you wish to take issue with Him because you don't hear Him. Perhaps you should consider what it is that stands in your "way." Perhaps you should consider that, just like you were wrong then... you are wrong now. I mean, it's not like you haven't BEEN wrong before.
A slave of Christ,
SA
AGuest

Shelby, I hope you know that I wasn't speaking about you.
Yes, I do know, dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you!), and I hope you know that my comment was not directed at you, at all. It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, actually. I just kind of "marveled" that folks can say things like "love is truth"... which may be the truth for them... or "no one is in the truth"... which may be what such one believes... but to say that Christ is the Truth... and that one is "in" him... well, that sets off some bells, doesn't it?
I kind of understand, given the many "games" so-called "christianity" has played with people's minds, hearts... and lives. And for millenia. But it's like guns: guns don't kill people - people kill people. The same with Christ - he never misled, lied to, judged, or killed anyone. Those who have done such things, however, and call themselves "christians"... are liars.
I can see taking issue with false christians. Heck, I take issue with false christians. They are a "synagogue of Satan"... and I have NO problem saying that... because they don't scare me.
I can't, however, see taking issue with Christ, as some do. It's like blaming the gun (which can be powerful, even lethal... but someone had to pull the trigger). I mean, I'm just sayin'.
Peace, dear one!
YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,
SA
Nickolas

Yet it seems that many find that story and His words quite offensive.
Those who find the reported words and story of Jesus of Nazareth offensive have some other agenda from mine. The world would be a far better place if we all lived according to the example of Jesus as reported in the New Testament. Who could read it with an open heart and mind and not be inspired by it? Who could argue the wisdom of the Golden Rule, regardless of who originated it? I know I was and I still am. The story of Jesus of Nazareth is one of the most beautiful ever told and that is why it has endured two millenia, but it is still a story that cannot be substantiated beyond the realm of faith. I can prosit without rancor that because so many thousands and millions of good, caring and self sacrificing men and women have bought into it lends no credibility to its veracity, it proves only that they believed and continue to believe it to be true to the extent they were and are willing to lay down their lives to defend it. The same may be said and more for the words and story of the Prophet Mohammed. No, one doesn't see too many Christians strapping bombs to themselves and detonating them in crowds of innocents (with the exception of the Tamil Tigers, most of whom also represent themselves as Christian) but that means only that their complete and utter conviction to their version of the truth is not quite so radical. They are at least just as convinced they subscribe to the genuine Truth as you are. At worst they are a great deal more determined that people pay attention to what they have to say.
When one lives his life according to the words of others and speaks them with rote accuracy, even when they are spoken with sincerity, confidence and eloquence, they are still the words of someone else and do not necessarily reflect the mind or intelligence of the one speaking them. They have in many cases left the thinking part to those others whose words they quote or, worse, to the people who spin the original thoughts into something else entirely. It is better to challenge what others tell you is true until you are utterly defeated and are no longer able to argue the contrarian perspective. Then you will be convinced of the truth to the extent you are capable. I have a ways to go, and so do you.
Your mind, OTWO, is logical.
Nickolas

Hey there, Shelby. I have just poured myself a nice, large single malt Islay and will retire in front of the big screen for an hour or so before dousing the lights. I'll read your contributions in the morning and get back. Probably late.
Good night, dear lady.
AGuest

Good night, dear Nickolas... and peace to you!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA (holds up her glass of merlot to dear Nick!)
just n from bethel

Nick - let me summarize them and save you the time:
Jesus talks to me personally. I'm right and everybody else that disagrees with me is wrong. Even those that also claim to have talks with Jesus - if what they they heard wasn't the same as what Jesus told me - then they're wrong too. Also I'd like to throw in some "tsk tsk" condesending expressions for everyone that just doesn't see it my way. For those that continue to express disbelief of my claims despite me not having any evidence, I will also throw in some damnation expressions. (But I won't be specific - it'll be more like: 'Please stop blaspheming, I have seen the vision of what's in store for you from Jehiccup MiCaca - YOU DO NOT WANT IT - PLEASE I BEG YOU. Retract your statements before it's too late. blah blah blah.) In short: I'm in the truth and you're not because my hallucinations tell me so.
AGuest

Nick - let me summarize them and save you the time:
Because, of course, you can, dear JNFB (peace to you!), yes?
Jesus talks to me personally.
That is GOOD news, indeed! Although, if it's "Jesus"... I would question it, personally...
I'm right and everybody else that disagrees with me is wrong.
Really! So, you got it like that, eh? Heh, I wish I did (then, again, maybe not -I mean, it's not like anyone will believe you... so what would be the point?).
Even those that also claim to have talks with Jesus - if what they they heard wasn't the same as what Jesus told me - then they're wrong too.
Again, really! Do you know such folks? If so, where are they? Do they post here? If so, why don't they post what this "Jesus" says to them? I mean, what have they to hide? I don't believe I've come across them much here. I have, however, read some of those folks posting quite a bit about what "the Bible" says... and, unfortunately, very often even getting of that wrong (I mean, it's one thing to claim that Christ tells them such and so; it's another to say that "the Bible" says... when it doesn't at all). I also hear a whole lot of non-"Jesus" people besides myself calling them on it... sometimes embarrassingly so. Doesn't seem to stop them, though... or enlighten them any more than others who claim to know what "the Bible" has to say. Like WTBTS leaders, for instance.
Also I'd like to throw in some "tsk tsk" condesending expressions for everyone that just doesn't see it my way.
Well, now, shame on you. That's not very kind or loving... or "christlike." Why not simply state the truth... and let it stand on its own? In that case, it really wouldn't matter whether others see it your way or not, would it? I mean... if it IS the truth? And if it isn't, it should be refutable, shouldn't it?
But I have to ask, since you brought it up: since when is speaking the truth a condecension? Outside the WTBTS and other cults/religions, I mean? Personally, it's the LIES that folks run around telling that stick in my craw. Especially about God and Christ. And ESPECIALLY the ones they tell under the guise of "I love you, man"... "We love you, man". Speaking love and peace to you all the day long... while taking my money, my belongings, even my family. Right out the backdoor... while inviting me in the front door. With condescending "tsks tsks" all the while!
For those that continue to express disbelief of my claims despite me not having any evidence, I will also throw in some damnation expressions.
Really. YOU will? Well, if so, you've got it going on more than most of us. May I ask... from where... or rather, from whom... do you get such authority to damn anyone?
(But I won't be specific - it'll be more like: 'Please stop blaspheming, I have seen the vision of what's in store for you from Jehiccup MiCaca - YOU DO NOT WANT IT - PLEASE I BEG YOU.
Well, I guess no one can hold you to specifics, dear one, if (1) you don't know the specifics... because they're none of your business or concern... or (2) you're too kind to state them... or (3) you don't have the authority to state them. Since you SEEM like a "nice" person (and you know, nice is "necessary" for a christian, hang the truth)... I'm going to assume number two in your case. For me, it would be more like number three...
Retract your statements before it's too late.
Well, I think you should at least ask them "nicely"...
blah blah blah.)
Yeah, that's what I heard, too, when I first read this, but my Lord's voice overpowered and told me to respond. I think he gave you the benefit of the doubt... that you're not "crazy". Just ignorant. And that's okay. Ignorance can be easily changed. As can lack of faith. Hatefulness... ... not so much. Takes a bit more to change that.
In short: I'm in the truth and you're not because my hallucinations tell me so.
Interesting. I don't necessarily know how truth and hallucinations go together but, really, whatever floats your boat. Now, if you had said you were in Christ, the Truth... and then all of this other melarkey... I would have had to call you on it. You know, because I would be almost certain that you didn't realize what you were doing but was only trying the "please" the crowd. Which is an insidious inclination in many of us. But since your truth is the product of your halluncinations, I am directed by MY master to just leave you to your own master. Who or whatever that may be.
I do bid you peace, dear JNFB, truly... and hears to hear when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:
"Come! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"
Because as wise as you may think you are... and sarcastic as you may actually be... you, like most everyone else... WILL be called. Hopefully, your hard heart won't cause you to also have a hard head... so that your hearing is negatively effected... and you miss the call. Would be a shame, really. Praise JAH, He doesn't necessarily call once.
A slave of Christ,
SA

"Are you In the Truth?"

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