"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas 202 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    you said: "Yet, you think you and I are "brothers"... and in Christ. Where do you GET that from? I do not consider you brother in Christ..."...

    I did.

    I have never said nor thought that we were brothers in Christ...

    I disagree. Solely on the basis that you believe I should agree with you, indeed, even associate with your Church. No, wait, even REVERE your Church and its leaders. That says to ME that you "think" we are brothers in Christ of some sort. We are not.

    here's a quote from your pm to me...your words are in caps:

    Okay... here's you:

    The Holy Spirit has spoken to many throughout the ages and has led them into all truth... that truth is like a hedge around them.

    It is no surprise (because we have been warned in the bible) that in these last days of this system of things that evil spirits would

    try even harder to lead us away from the truth

    And my response:

    AND WHAT IS THE TRUTH, MICHELLE?

    Care to try and answer that now? I mean, it has been quite some time. Surely, YOUR leaders have revealed this very important TRUTH to you by now?

    You, again:

    ...and that is, I'm afraid, has happened to you.

    Yes, that "evil spirits" are trying to lead me away from the truth. Yet, I have told you, publicly and privately, many, many times... that it IS the Truth who leads me. So, I say again, without reservation:

    YOU[R] "FEAR" IS UNFOUNDED AND PATHETIC. IT IS EXACTLY WHAT THOSE OF THE WTBTS SAID AND SAY. YET, I AM [THE ONLY ONE] SAYING TO LISTEN TO CHRIST (although others may how say so, too)... THE TRUTH. YOU AND OTHERS SAY LISTEN TO THE BIBLE (which is absolutely what you say). WHO IS MISLEADING YOU, MICHELLE? (Perhaps you can answer that one, now, too?)

    so...my concern for you and your fate is PATHETIC...

    First, you're not concerned for me. At all. You're concerned for the Church. We've had THAT discussion on more occasions than I can count. Second, your insistence at trying to make be believe that following a man, the Pope, and HIS "church"... is what God wants us to do... because that is what YOU do... while repeatedly calling the Truth, my Lord, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... an "evil spirit"... has indeed become pathetic. It has been years, Michelle. Years. And you still don't get it. And I ask you to leave me be. Yet, you post and PM and post and PM.

    I have more respect for most of those who say there IS no God... than you, who cannot see past your blind, starry-eyed reverence for a man... whom you call "Father"... while claiming to belong to Christ. I actually have more respect for JWs, at this point. Why? Because, unlike you, they don't blaspheme against that Holy Spirit... under the guise of showing me "love." Seriously. And so I have nothing but pity for you... and you have brought that on yourself. Because I offered you love - and what you returned was a reviling - not against me, but against the very Truth that YOU say is "evil" and misleading me. Because I asked you to leave me be... quit posting and PMing me... but that "love" you say YOU have won't allow you to honor my request.

    thank you for your time spent in reply to me...rev. 12:15...as always, it is most revealing.

    See, this is what gets me about you, Michelle. Pray tell us what Revelation 12:15 pertains to. Please. If you know. Prove yourself... once and for all. What has the Holy Spirit told YOU about this verse? Or are you like those who just spout off verses and scriptures in an effort to "frighten" others and have them go "Ooooooh! Ahhhhhh!" while you really haven't a clue? It's the latter, of course, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Explain the verse.

    love michelle

    Ah, yes, a little more of that "godly devotion". And the little heart makes it all authentic and genuine, doesn't it? Your words to me over the years prove your "love" to be false, Michelle. Even blind, you should "see" that.

    Now, let's stop taking over another's thread with our own differences, shall we? You have something to say to me, start a thread. But do NOT PM me because I will not respond to you from now on except publicly. Because you tend to leave a whole lot out.

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • jay88
    jay88

    Aquest- if you are an example of what it means to have 'Truth in Christ'----then I can see how some have disdain for Christianity.

    I for one have an affinity for Christ's teachings,.......however, it would be tough for me to accept you as one of his representatives.

    Without question you are affable and you chose your words wisely, this is appreciated.

    I have read your post over the couple of month prior to becoming a member and it doesn't hold a candle to Jesus's teaching, and that may derive from you being infatuated with your disposition.

    If anything, please don't consider this to be religious persecution. (I understand how important martyrdom is for some).

    Are you the outcome of what it mean to put on the new personality?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    While Shelby certainly doesn't need me to defend her I would remind people of this:

    Paul, James, "the John's"( Apostle and elder and Patmos dude) Peter, Jude, Matthew, Mark, Luke, all of them had their OWN way of preaching the word of Christ, they even rubbed each other the worng way and many times disagreed on HOW to proclaim the Lord's message.

    People have personalities and not everyone's personalities go well with others and the fact is, our personalities come out even when we write ( perhaps more so).

    If someone doesn't like the way Shelby proclaims the Lord's message, that is OK, they don't have to, that is why others proclaim it in a different way.

    There is no need to be rude or even argumentive with Her or anyone else.

    One can disagree with another persons points and they way they express them, it's ok to do that.

    There is no need to be rude or condesending or anything like that.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    There is no need to be rude or condesending or anything like that.

    Read more of the person you defend and see who really was rude or condescending first and foremost. It wasn't those that respond to her.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    OTWO,

    The last pasrt of my post was direct to ALL, not just those disagreeing with Shelby.

    I should have been more clear, sorry.

    One can disagree with another persons points and they way they express them, it's ok to do that.
    There is no need to be rude or condesending or anything like that.

    The first times I read Shelby's posts I didn''t like the tone either, Shelby can attest to that.

    I realised that is her posting style and I learned to be OK with it.

    I don't like Terry's posting style either or any of the atheist here that tend to post in a way that insinuates that believers are brain washed or have poor reasoning skills or lack the abibloity to be critical, which are not true.

    But I too have come to understand that is just their "posting style", nothing more, nothing less.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Psac, you deserve the JWN Peace Prize.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    LMAO !!
    Awesome button !!

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    I would say Shelby is probably wrong now.

    A WHOLE lot going on in that "probably", dear Jerry. And yes, I am going to wish you peace, for now, which I will explain, below.

    But I won't bother.

    But you did...

    It is 100% obvious that you don't believe your own crap.

    Not according to you. At least, not further below...

    You have been proven wrong and contradicting on here again and again.

    You have one issue, human slavery, where you believe I am wrong because I told the truth, as it was given me by my Lord: that is was NEVER lawful for one man to own another, regardless of what men may have written. You dispute that, based on what "the Bible" says. I explained that, as well. You, however, are the one who proves himself contradictory again and again. First, in that you don't even believe in God or the Bible (or so you say); yet, you apparently believe it to be infallible, as when I related what the Holy Spirit said... versus what the Bible says: you chose the latter. How IS that, exactly? Second, in this very post. On the one hand you say "It is 100% obvious..." and then turn around and dispute your own statement, below. More than once. At least I'm consistent, dear Jerry.

    You are not schizophrenic or in contact with the Holy Spirit.

    I am not, as to the first... but I cannot lie and say that I am not as to the second. Sorry, but blasphemy isn't my thing - it's yours.

    You are a slinger of bullcrap, just as bad as any troll.

    I know you wish to believe this, Jerry, I do. I understand it. I totally get it. You don't WANT to believe what I share... for a number of reasons. Primarily, if there IS a God... why in the heck isn't He talking to YOU? He is, dear one. Truly. But your [very] hard heart... which has resulted from your great chagrin and ANGER... at the WTBTS... which chagrin and anger you project onto HIM... won't LET you hear. It undermines your FAITH. SOFTEN your heart, though (and I will touch more on that in a sec)... and perhaps you will develop enough faith... TO hear. In time, if not now.

    Otherwise, you have violated what the Holy Spirit has commanded you again and again by responding to me.

    I did, to an extent. There is something, however, that surpasses ALL "law", dear Jerry... and that is love. There is NO law against love. God is merciful, Jerry, and He shows mercy to whomever HE wishes to show it. All one needs do is make an attempt to soften their hearts toward Him. Your word... "probably"... and others, below... are evidence to me that you might well be doing that.

    Unlike the very false teachings you received... and taught... when a part of the WTBTS, however... the Most Holy One of Israel is NOT a God that remembers our errors forever. Once doesn't even have to repent FIRST in order to receive His grace and loving kindness. So, even if He didn't forgive you... yet... that authority is granted to all who have His Spirit, through Christ... and so I can forgive you your errors... at least, those against me... and I do. Because of the love shown me by Christ - he forgave me MY errors against God and him... and others. Who am I to hold onto those who sin against me? Regardless of whether they ask for forgiveness or not. I can forgive... because I "want" to. And I should.

    But, if, in my responding to you, I have sinned against the Holy Spirit... then I deliver up my life, willingly, to that Spirit to do with as he pleases. It is his, anyway, because I gave it to him a long time ago. If, however, in my so responding, I can help YOU move closer to a softer heart... which soft heart might save YOU... then so be it: I do it, gladly. Because what is my life worth, anyway? Nothing. And certainly less than nothing if I can't give it up for you. Even though you think us "enemies."

    Please go back to ignoring me, I liked it better.

    No, you didn't, dear Jerry. You felt slighted. By me... and by relation, by God. Because you DON'T really think I am a fake. You WANT to think so... and even that's not totally accurate... but you don't, truly. The truth is that you want to believe me... to have the faith I have... but you also don't want to be fooled again. I get that, dear one. Truly. I told you that, before. But I am NOT fooling you. I am NOT playing with your heart, mind, soul, emotions... or good sense. I am truly sharing the truth. I can't do anything else. It is no longer IN me to share anything else but the truth. It's the LEAST I can do for all those years I shared lies... which lies may have cost some their eternal lives. Do you SEE?

    And yes, I could be wrong about that.

    And so, you're "100%" is out the window. You're down to what, say, 90%, now? Well, okay, that's a good start. Nothing to sniff at. I mean, it's evidence of SOME "movement" in your heart, yes? From hard... to....ummm... shall we say... less hard.

    You could really have deluded yourself and actually believe yourself and caused yourself to have a condition similar to schizophrenia.

    I could have. But we both know that that's not what has happened at all, don't we?

    I told my story. It was my mental condition that made me think God had some intervention in my life. I am much better now.

    I understand that: a weak mental inclination can make us susceptible to all kinds of things, including false teachings. Even demons, for some. That you are now "better" is indisputable. "Much", however... well, I'm not so sure. Personally, I think that if you were indeed "much" better... no one... NO ONE... including some good for nothing servant like me... would get to you. Indeed, ESPECIALLY a good for nothing servant like me. My "delusions" wouldn't make a difference to you one way or another. Have absolutely no effect, at all. Yet, you cannot seem to get "Shelby" off your brain. Or, rather, your heart. "Something" is pinging true for you there such that you cannot simply dismiss me and my message. What IS that all about, dear Jerry? Only you know...

    Still, I leave room for being in error now,

    Why? If I am absolutely wrong... then you are absolutely right. Right? What "error", then?

    but truly mean that part about "...then who the hell wants to worship such a shitty divine power anyway that cannot or does not make itself known?"

    Yes, I know you meant it. As did my Lord. Which is why I think I was permitted to respond. True, I may have overstepped a direction from him as to responding to you, but he didn't stop me. Which he could have done - he has before. On MANY occasions. He didn't here, though...

    He/She/It can show it's power if it wants to. I ain'ta scared.

    Yeah, you are. A little. You're just hoping, though, that if you yell loud enough... if you call Him out just enough times... He will "respond". In a manner that you "need" Him to. Even if means striking you with lightening or something. You don't care what, just something. But, the truth is, dear one... that it really doesn't work like that.

    The TRUTH is that you most probably (but I truly cannot say for sure, so I won't) WON'T have a "on the road to Damascus" experience. To tell you truthfully, I don't think you WANT that. I think you want something... but to get what Paul got... dear one, you would have to suffer what Paul suffered as a result! Which, given THIS day and age, I don't think you really want - I mean, it could be multiplied, greatly. For example, you COULD be sent to "Israel" that is a part of the extreme Muslim world today. Surely, you know that Abraham's blood it there, too! Given today's manner of treating prisoners and such, however, I am personally glad he only sent me HERE. I mean, you guys can be tough, yes, but... I mean, like, I don't have to wear a burka or risk being killed because I showed an ankle or something!

    Shelby offers no better than the con-men faith healers.

    Dear Jerry, you still doubt the Spirit. You say that as a covert challenge: "C'mon, Shelby, show me a SIGN. I need to SEE something to believe you!" Well, the only thing I can reply is that the only "sign" you will receive... if you keep looking for one in that way... is the sign of Jonah. IF, however, you look for a sign through FAITH... only God and Christ know what will be "shown" you, dear one. There is no limitation that I am aware of, however.

    If the trick doesn't work on somebody, the fault lies with their faith.

    Yeah... don't you HATE it when those folks do that... and do it "in the name of Gawd!?" Makes it REAL hard for someone who really does have that gift (of healing). And I know a couple of folks. You would never see such a one in a church, however, or on TV/YouTube. From everything I know, such healings take place in very private settings, usually with only the infirmed and close loved ones present. Because the act is not for the oooohs and ahhhhhhs of the world; it is for the building up of the Body [of Christ] and nothing else. The people you see on TV/in church, etc., go "praising Gawd." The Body, however, praises the Most Holy One of Israel... and the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, His Christ.

    I accept that such a fantasy could be reality,

    And so, we're down to, what, 80%, now?? WHOOO-HOOO! Progress, dear Jerry, progress! Keep going and before you know that old hard heart will be soft as a... well... an I don't know what! But soft[er]! And that's a great start! Because the Law of the NEW Covenant requires a soft heart. Even God can't write on a hard heart - because those are even harder than stone tablets!!

    but then I go back to such a deity not being someone/something I would want to worship.

    Yeah, hmmmmm... sounds like you're dealing with that 'ol "indecisiveness" thing. James had some help for that, at James 1:5. Take a look - might help, if what I'm sharing with you here doesn't. Or... orrrr... you COULD "soften" up your heart just a little more... not much, just a little... you know, a skosh, maybe... and ask... for yourself.

    I doubt that if a benevolent almighty creator did exist,

    He does...

    it would want us to waste so much energy worshipping anyway.

    Actually... HE... doesn't. Not in the way we think "worship" means. He wants us to worship HIM... by honoring all others, including Him and His Christ. Doing to them as we would have done to ourselves. And... by listening to, honoring... and glorifying... through love... His Son. The TRUE king appointed over mankind.

    If it does, it will tell us how to worship,

    HE did: in [and through the] Spirit... and in [and through the] the Truth... His Son... with love...

    why we worship

    HE did: to glorify Him, Christ... ourselves... our fellowman... and the creation... by means of love...

    when we worship

    HE did: 24/7. In order to "enter" into HIS "day of rest"... HIS Sabbath... which is EVERY day, as Christ is LORD of the Sabbath... we must cease from doing our OWN "works" (which works are self-oriented and often lead to the detriment of our fellowman)... and do HIS "works"... which are borne out in mercy, love, peace, faith, pity, compassion... and things like these...

    and it will do so clearly if it wants such worship.

    He did. He sent a Son to CLEARLY show us how. And that One did... and still does. If we only listen to him. Then, we will not only hear... but SEE.

    I bid you peace, dear Jerry. If your previous error yet remains, that is between you and God. I don't doubt, however, that He would show you mercy... for that and what came before it in your life... if you only condescended to ask. He is not like us: He is love and so does not keep account of the error. I know, I know... "the Bible" says that my Lord said the sin of anyone who blasphemed against the Holy Spirit would NOT be forgiven. And that IS law. But love... covers a MULTITUDE of transgressions... and there is no law against love. So, if the Most Holy One of Israel chose to extend love toward you... and forgive your error... there would be no law against Him doing so. He would still be adhereing to HIS law... of love.

    I bid you peace... because it is what I would want you to do to me... and ears to hear, if you truly wish them (and it is the will of my Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, to grant them. If so, it will be through His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... for there is no other Way).

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • tec
    tec
    LMAO !!
    Awesome button !!

    I am so ashamed that I did not get the irony in that button ;)

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    Are you the outcome of what it mean to put on the new personality?

    Good Lordy, no, dear Jay88 (again, peace to you!). If I had conquered in that sense, I am not sure what need I would have of Christ. Unlike other "christians"... I am a foremost sinner. Imperfect as all hell, really. Try... and fail. Get up and try again... and fail. Praise JAH, however, there is One who makes up my deficiencies. HE is love in me... when I have no love. HE is peace in me... when I have no peace. HE is faith in me... when I have no faith. And so on. And most often... I lack all of these at some time or another.

    Which is why I love him (Christ). Because he loves ME... in spite of my utter failings. Because he does not judge me, but accept my love for him without suspicion or rancor. And so, that's why I come here and share what I do - he gives it to me and the LEAST I can do is share it with his Household. Even if they don't listen.

    I'm not trying to tickle anyone's ears, dear Jay88. Truthfully, (1) I should think we've ALL had enough of that, and (2) I don't really know how. I didn't when I was in the WTBTS, which often caused me GREAT "problems." You know, when out in FS, when answering during the WT. When giving a "part" on the TS. The lies (or at least, the inexplicable "trooths") would stick in my throat. If I did manage to get one out... well, I felt guilt for weeks. And then, I was always afraid one would come back to "haunt" me.

    Now, however, since I come to know the Truth... since he has come to know me... I cannot do anything but speak the truth as to what I share here. I would say, however, that in such knowing him... I don't think a lot of folks can/could take what HE says and how, either... which MIGHT be why a lot "don't" hear him - it's not what they WANT to hear... or in the WAY they want to hear it. That was something I learned very early. He doesn't tickle ones ears. He simply states that truth. Kindly, yes. Lovingly, yes. But truthfully. And the truth isn't always "pretty." Sometimes, it just is what it is.

    I hope this helps and bid you peace, dear Jay, truly!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

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